summaryrefslogtreecommitdiff
path: root/dc/3146288aa56644ce7e27c33487db42256acb1b
blob: c32d56a60293f7e49948107f4461b8383e5c7dc5 (plain)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
Return-Path: <michaelfolkson@protonmail.com>
Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::137])
 by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2248FC002D
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:45:59 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFAA0408DF
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:45:58 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp4.osuosl.org EFAA0408DF
Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org;
 dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=protonmail.com header.i=@protonmail.com
 header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=protonmail3 header.b=Afe2ktAi
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.102
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5
 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
 DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001,
 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001]
 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id RPGsAJytFIcQ
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:45:57 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp4.osuosl.org 6FAF9408CA
Received: from mail-40134.protonmail.ch (mail-40134.protonmail.ch
 [185.70.40.134])
 by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FAF9408CA
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:45:57 +0000 (UTC)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:45:36 +0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com;
 s=protonmail3; t=1673883954; x=1674143154;
 bh=tTDN2WdDSgdRBVEbMy09a2SrooUTHeWnbpCDmjmqPs8=;
 h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:
 Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID:
 Message-ID:BIMI-Selector;
 b=Afe2ktAiMJO38yVqyxkfCVgWq60GuFY7j2v83++PbeE/iKFC1GU0SylWkQ3UTkhJB
 /HWV6jomBUIUeCzVk0euxvjjVOhHZi+wen04Ix9ox4Z7YlRu3XN+Kodk7EiHPOtdg2
 b4eTWpzpWqP/gurYYrC8QZL4vZwwLeoOZgtqDM/vlv9Y0yZpxaku9XCwhc1yWwLsrq
 ihpcWckHGF+HMrBINlkiNV17o5c25TnM526gq5K86aqUTZhp8RCPEAO9VKep+x9h/6
 QP8ecp+ws5quojL9M9PjdZ0T6udS5J72qrexip/fy4nxh8ISidXBxPnU2poAf0LM7e
 WT5mGO+pcFEyg==
To: alicexbt <alicexbt@protonmail.com>
From: Michael Folkson <michaelfolkson@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <tU0pTKOODHenOeHhFqEIC0uBDz_jj5mjVpQJcJun4uDm9YaNNHXSsLXsCSY-tMzb5dgQVcaEEdYF5zwGvlJ-OUfDH6KlJqzEpiArB3Kv2cA=@protonmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <KdDQGItU-BH7EotUQ9DoiUZRPM9TRnflf4P664Ue2ynCyj6ts1zFIoHxf4q-EsaM8b_GVrvXZZA9TtPX6BVY6CfSvXcme12lxLe_1RoAwZw=@protonmail.com>
References: <aka4qP9Cig-OhfMlQ9y1kghZWExjpno4cs47KIgYwv4aLYtiQB37eHbj2X2hiDuoK0D1gSeKWP97P0bRADbTg1CZRBIpHGZ5WFFYPWIJ87Y=@protonmail.com>
 <KdDQGItU-BH7EotUQ9DoiUZRPM9TRnflf4P664Ue2ynCyj6ts1zFIoHxf4q-EsaM8b_GVrvXZZA9TtPX6BVY6CfSvXcme12lxLe_1RoAwZw=@protonmail.com>
Feedback-ID: 27732268:user:proton
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:49:13 +0000
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev] A new Bitcoin implementation
	integrated with Core Lightning
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, 
 <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, 
 <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2023 15:45:59 -0000

Hi alicexbt

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll take a look at the branch.

I'm personally pretty bullish on Lightning and Core Lightning is criminally=
 underused. Plus it is more exciting (and hopefully will attract more contr=
ibutors) to try something ambitious than just trim Core. I'll see if it is =
something the Core Lightning contributors might be interested in helping ou=
t on. I remember that Rusty said on a podcast that if he had another life h=
e'd have liked to have worked on Core. This way he could potentially do bot=
h :)

Thanks
Michael

--
Michael Folkson
Email: michaelfolkson at protonmail.com
Keybase: michaelfolkson
PGP: 43ED C999 9F85 1D40 EAF4 9835 92D6 0159 214C FEE3


------- Original Message -------
On Sunday, January 15th, 2023 at 12:58, alicexbt <alicexbt@protonmail.com> =
wrote:


> Hi Michael,
>=20
> If I were to fork bitcoin core and maintain an implementation, I wouldn't=
 integrate any lightning implementation with it. Instead remove some things=
 from bitcoin core and keep it simple. There is also scope for improving pr=
ivacy. Example: https://github.com/bitcoinknots/bitcoin/issues/50
>=20
> You might find the commits in this branch interesting if you are looking =
to remove things from bitcoin core and maintain an implementation with no g=
ui, wallet, less RPCs etc.
>=20
> https://github.com/jeremyRubin/bitcoin/commits/delete-it-all
>=20
>=20
> /dev/fd0
> floppy disc guy
>=20
> Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>=20
> ------- Original Message -------
> On Sunday, January 15th, 2023 at 1:56 AM, Michael Folkson via Lightning-d=
ev lightning-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > I tweeted this 0 back in November 2022.
> >=20
> > "With the btcd bugs and the analysis paralysis on a RBF policy option i=
n Core increasingly thinking @BitcoinKnots and consensus compatible forks o=
f Core are the future. Gonna chalk that one up to another thing @LukeDashjr=
 was right about all along."
> >=20
> > A new bare bones Knots style Bitcoin implementation (in C++/C) integrat=
ed with Core Lightning was a long term idea I had (and presumably many othe=
rs have had) but the dysfunction on the Bitcoin Core project this week (if =
anything it has been getting worse over time, not better) has made me start=
 to take the idea more seriously. It is clear to me that the current way th=
e Bitcoin Core project is being managed is not how I would like an open sou=
rce project to be managed. Very little discussion is public anymore and dec=
isions seem to be increasingly made behind closed doors or in private IRC c=
hannels (to the extent that decisions are made at all). Core Lightning seem=
s to have the opposite problem. It is managed effectively in the open (admi=
ttedly with fewer contributors) but doesn't have the eyeballs or the usage =
that Bitcoin Core does. Regardless, selfishly I at some point would like a =
bare bones Bitcoin and Lightning implementation integrated in one codebase.=
 The Bitcoin Core codebase has collected a lot of cruft over time and the u=
ltra conservatism that is needed when treating (potential) consensus code s=
eems to permeate into parts of the codebase that no one is using, definitel=
y isn't consensus code and should probably just be removed.
> >=20
> > The libbitcoinkernel project was (is?) an attempt to extract the consen=
sus engine out of Core but it seems like it won't achieve that as consensus=
 is just too slippery a concept and Knots style consensus compatible codeba=
se forks of Bitcoin Core seem to still the model. To what extent you can sa=
fely chop off this cruft and effectively maintain this less crufty fork of =
Bitcoin Core also isn't clear to me yet.
> >=20
> > Then there is the question of whether it makes sense to mix C and C++ c=
ode that people have different views on. C++ is obviously a superset of C b=
ut assuming this merging of Bitcoin Core and Core Lightning is/was the opti=
mal final destination it surely would have been better if Core Lightning wa=
s written in the same language (i.e. with classes) as Bitcoin Core.
> >=20
> > I'm just floating the idea to (hopefully) hear from people who are much=
 more familiar with the entirety of the Bitcoin Core and Core Lightning cod=
ebases. It would be an ambitious long term project but it would be nice to =
focus on some ambitious project(s) (even if just conceptually) for a while =
given (thankfully) there seems to be a lull in soft fork activation chaos.
> >=20
> > Thanks
> > Michael
> >=20
> > --
> > Michael Folkson
> > Email: michaelfolkson at protonmail.com
> > Keybase: michaelfolkson
> > PGP: 43ED C999 9F85 1D40 EAF4 9835 92D6 0159 214C FEE3