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From: Bob Burnett <bob.burnett@barefootmining.com>
To: Pieter Wuille <bitcoin-dev@wuille.net>
CC: Sjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost.nl>, Bitcoin Development Mailing List
	<bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Removing OP_Return restrictions: Devil's Advocate Position
Thread-Topic: [bitcoindev] Removing OP_Return restrictions: Devil's Advocate
 Position
Thread-Index: AQHbykJbZQJfwvE0qEqhK+BEG7Guo7PdDBbEgAAd7ACAACZlF4AADV4AgAAB5CI=
Date: Wed, 21 May 2025 18:12:52 +0000
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And yes, I understand how demand for such services makes sense, and I do no=
t fault you for pursuing them. But they are a threat, and I think the Bitco=
in ecosystem should think hard about how to avoid their emergence

I appreciate your response/interaction/opinion.  I do believe you come to y=
our position from your belief on what is in the best interests of Bitcoin, =
and I respect that.  I realize that you don=E2=80=99t know me, and I can on=
ly say that my position is also established with the same intentions.  With=
 that said, I don=E2=80=99t think these types of services are a threat at a=
ll.  I think they are essential to a healthy mining network where miners ca=
n have some control over a portion of their future revenue streams, especia=
lly in the greatly reduced subsidy era we are about to enter.  And, I think=
 the lack of a futures/forward market for blockspace is a major inhibitor t=
o adoption and usage.  Its hard to build a business where access to block s=
pace is a necessity without any visibility to the future.  I believe this c=
an be done in a manner that provides openness and transparency, and it woul=
d also give us for the first time visibility to future demand and pricing a=
nd I think that will be valuable to the enter ecosystem.   Again, thanks fo=
r the reply.

From: Pieter Wuille <bitcoin-dev@wuille.net>
Date: Wednesday, May 21, 2025 at 1:52=E2=80=AFPM
To: Bob Burnett <bob.burnett@barefootmining.com>
Cc: Sjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost.nl>, Bitcoin Development Mailing List <=
bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Removing OP_Return restrictions: Devil's Advocate=
 Position
You don't often get email from bitcoin-dev@wuille.net. Learn why this is im=
portant<https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>
Hi Bob,

On Wednesday, May 21st, 2025 at 1:24 PM, Bob Burnett <bob.burnett@barefootm=
ining.com> wrote:

None of my comments insinuate that deals would not be public or that all us=
ers and all miners would not have access to this service.  The product/serv=
ice I am working on would be public and anyone could participate.

By publicly-enforced I literally mean deals enforced by the public, i.e., t=
he Bitcoin network, where anyone is free to participate without needing to =
ask anyone for permission (e.g., I could imagine some hypothetical mechanis=
m to buy futures of block space directly, as part of Bitcoin's network rule=
s). This is in contrast with what I think you're referring to, a business d=
eal, known to the public or not, that is enforced by parties knowing each o=
ther, and having legal agreements between them, or at least some means of l=
egal recourse.

The point is that revenue streams for miners that rely on them being identi=
fiable real-world parties hurt permissionless of entry to the mining market=
, as they'd either need to build up their own contracts with block space us=
ers (where a new small-hashrate miner would be in a bad negotiating positio=
n), or join a conglomerate of miners that handles these contracts jointly -=
 requiring asking the conglomerate for permission.

A world in which there is no ability for users to have some level of certai=
nty about access to future blockspace and the cost of that blockspace is no=
t one that, imo, can scale to the levels that I believe we all hope to atta=
in.  Blockspace can/should act like any other commodity (think corn or soyb=
eans) in which sellers (miners) mitigate risk and lock in long term revenue=
 streams, and consumers (users) can guarantee their future access and the c=
ost of that access.  Blockspace acting as purely a real-time, spot market i=
s not one that I feel is capable of scaling to global levels.


And yes, I understand how demand for such services makes sense, and I do no=
t fault you for pursuing them. But they are a threat, and I think the Bitco=
in ecosystem should think hard about how to avoid their emergence.

--

Pieter


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<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif=
">And yes, I understand how demand for such services makes sense, and I do =
not fault you for pursuing them. But they are a threat, and I think the Bit=
coin ecosystem should think hard about how to
 avoid their emergence</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&q=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">I appreciate your r=
esponse/interaction/opinion.&nbsp; I do believe you come to your position f=
rom your belief on what is in the best interests of Bitcoin, and I respect =
that.&nbsp; I realize that you don=E2=80=99t know me,
 and I can only say that my position is also established with the same inte=
ntions.&nbsp; With that said, I don=E2=80=99t think these types of services=
 are a threat at all.&nbsp; I think they are essential to a healthy mining =
network where miners can have some control over a
 portion of their future revenue streams, especially in the greatly reduced=
 subsidy era we are about to enter.&nbsp; And, I think the lack of a future=
s/forward market for blockspace is a major inhibitor to adoption and usage.=
&nbsp; Its hard to build a business where
 access to block space is a necessity without any visibility to the future.=
&nbsp; I believe this can be done in a manner that provides openness and tr=
ansparency, and it would also give us for the first time visibility to futu=
re demand and pricing and I think that
 will be valuable to the enter ecosystem.&nbsp; &nbsp;Again, thanks for the=
 reply.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Pieter Wuille &lt;b=
itcoin-dev@wuille.net&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, May 21, 2025 at 1:52</span><span style=3D"font-size=
:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">=E2=80=AF</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">PM<br>
<b>To: </b>Bob Burnett &lt;bob.burnett@barefootmining.com&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Sjors Provoost &lt;sjors@sprovoost.nl&gt;, Bitcoin Development M=
ailing List &lt;bitcoindev@googlegroups.com&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [bitcoindev] Removing OP_Return restrictions: Devil's A=
dvocate Position<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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ement-anchor-horizontal:column;mso-height-rule:exactly">
<span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,sans-serif=
;color:black">You don't often get email from bitcoin-dev@wuille.net.
<a href=3D"https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification">Learn why this is=
 important</a>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Segoe UI&quot;,san=
s-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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mportant;border:revert!important;bottom:revert!important;color:revert!impor=
tant;direction:revert!important;display:revert!important;font-size:revert!i=
mportant;height:revert!important;letter-spacing:revert!important;line-heigh=
t:revert!important;margin:revert!important;opacity:revert!important;order:r=
evert!important;outline:revert!important;overflow:revert!important;padding:=
revert!important;position:revert!important;tab-size:revert!important;table-=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Bob,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif">On Wednesday, May 21st, 2025 at 1:24 PM, Bob Burnett =
&lt;bob.burnett@barefootmining.com&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans=
-serif">None of my comments insinuate that deals would not be public or tha=
t all users and all miners would not have access
 to this service.&nbsp; The product/service I am working on would be public=
 and anyone could participate.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-f=
amily:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans=
-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans=
-serif">By publicly-enforced I literally mean deals enforced by the public,=
 i.e., the Bitcoin network, where anyone is free
 to participate without needing to ask anyone for permission (e.g., I could=
 imagine some hypothetical mechanism to buy futures of block space directly=
, as part of Bitcoin's network rules). This is in contrast with what I thin=
k you're referring to, a business
 deal, known to the public or not, that is enforced by parties knowing each=
 other, and having legal agreements between them, or at least some means of=
 legal recourse.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans=
-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans=
-serif">The point is that revenue streams for miners that rely on them bein=
g identifiable real-world parties hurt permissionless
 of entry to the mining market, as they'd either need to build up their own=
 contracts with block space users (where a new small-hashrate miner would b=
e in a bad negotiating position), or join a conglomerate of miners that han=
dles these contracts jointly - requiring
 asking the conglomerate for permission.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans=
-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans=
-serif">A world in which there is no ability for users to have some level o=
f certainty about access to future blockspace and
 the cost of that blockspace is not one that, imo, can scale to the levels =
that I believe we all hope to attain.&nbsp; Blockspace can/should act like =
any other commodity (think corn or soybeans) in which sellers (miners) miti=
gate risk and lock in long term revenue
 streams, and consumers (users) can guarantee their future access and the c=
ost of that access.&nbsp; Blockspace acting as purely a real-time, spot mar=
ket is not one that I feel is capable of scaling to global levels.
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-s=
erif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans=
-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif=
">And yes, I understand how demand for such services makes sense, and I do =
not fault you for pursuing them. But they are a threat, and I think the Bit=
coin ecosystem should think hard about how to
 avoid their emergence.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&=
quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif=
">-- </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,s=
ans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif=
">Pieter</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot=
;,sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-serif=
"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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