path: root/d5/3326d56a93d371d3cbe55e4c4040c9ff8cbce7

Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192]
	helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
	by sfs-ml-1.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
	(envelope-from <natanael.l@gmail.com>) id 1W45eE-0001Xj-AL
	for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
	Fri, 17 Jan 2014 09:23:30 +0000
Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com
	designates 74.125.82.170 as permitted sender)
	client-ip=74.125.82.170; envelope-from=natanael.l@gmail.com;
	helo=mail-we0-f170.google.com; 
Received: from mail-we0-f170.google.com ([74.125.82.170])
	by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.76) id 1W45eC-00014J-LG
	for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
	Fri, 17 Jan 2014 09:23:30 +0000
Received: by mail-we0-f170.google.com with SMTP id u57so4330616wes.15
	for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>;
	Fri, 17 Jan 2014 01:23:22 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.180.160.166 with SMTP id xl6mr1202982wib.43.1389950602420;
	Fri, 17 Jan 2014 01:23:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.194.178.4 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Jan 2014 01:23:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.194.178.4 with HTTP; Fri, 17 Jan 2014 01:23:22 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <CANEZrP1=PMiJn9BoN50K1wz2tOdxx5L80ngjErCJqj5wm2ESPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAS2fgTz0TaGhym_35V3N2-vHVzU9BeuV8q+QJjwh5bg77FEZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANEZrP0huBWqgvQik9Yc26Tu4CwR0VSXcfC+qfzsZqvoU4VJGA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140113133746.GI38964@giles.gnomon.org.uk>
	<CANEZrP1KAVhi_-cxCYe0rR9LUSYJ8MyW8=6eSJZ65FeY5ZJNuQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140114225321.GT38964@giles.gnomon.org.uk>
	<CANAnSg0tH_bK_19rsRRHOeZgrGYeWMhW89fXPyS4DQGmS4r_7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALimQCXgc0eXeOcqFGUaCpSF7gKEe87KzvLqHZwUysV3WyjjGw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAS2fgShChAQryfUOBp60jB-zxn2tH986fu1HfT+LsNdBYnoYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJHLa0P5r2+kxy7w8G=h=TAhdk1jUoW5UOiv-euo47uQY0u9ZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<op.w9q6jdsayldrnw@laptop-air.hsd1.ca.comcast.net>
	<20140116212805.GA4421@petertodd.org>
	<CANAnSg2TY7Zh7RnHkBeTz1s-WutGLayum8q5DhdLhtOBMDT9ng@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANEZrP1=PMiJn9BoN50K1wz2tOdxx5L80ngjErCJqj5wm2ESPA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2014 10:23:22 +0100
Message-ID: <CAAt2M19xSmdgtBfva2WEtV8ff6DP7Zhwtbi+8sXeUrFQGAK1Wg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Natanael <natanael.l@gmail.com>
To: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b66f9cbe9aacc04f02717a4
X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
	See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
	-1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for
	sender-domain
	0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider
	(natanael.l[at]gmail.com)
	-0.0 SPF_PASS               SPF: sender matches SPF record
	1.0 HTML_MESSAGE           BODY: HTML included in message
	-0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from
	author's domain
	0.1 DKIM_SIGNED            Message has a DKIM or DK signature,
	not necessarily valid
	-0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
X-Headers-End: 1W45eC-00014J-LG
Cc: "bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net"
	<bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Stealth Addresses
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2014 09:23:30 -0000

--047d7b66f9cbe9aacc04f02717a4
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

So far I've only liked the original name "Stealth address" and the
suggestion "routing address".

Should we put this up for some kind of informal vote with comments allowed?
Like a Google docs form?

- Sent from my phone
Den 17 jan 2014 10:18 skrev "Mike Hearn" <mike@plan99.net>:

> I must say, this shed is mighty fine looking. It'd be a great place to
> store our bikes. But, what colour should we paint it?
>
> How about we split the difference and go with "privacy address"? As Peter
> notes, that's what people actually like and want. The problem with stealth
> is it's got strong connotations with American military hardware and perhaps
> thieves sneaking around in the night:
>
>    https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=stealth
>
> But everyone loves privacy.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Drak <drak@zikula.org> wrote:
>
>> Peter I agree with you about  "reusable addresses", but aren't we also
>> trying to get away from the word "address" entirely?  How about calling it
>> a "payment key" or "reusable payment key" instead? using "stealth" is just
>> asking for bad press imo.
>>
>>
>> On 16 January 2014 21:28, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 04:05:27PM -0800, Jeremy Spilman wrote:
>>> > Might I propose "reusable address".
>>> >
>>> > I think that describes it best to any non-programmer, and even more
>>> > so encourages wallets to present options as 'one time use' vs
>>> > 'reusable'.
>>> >
>>> > It definitely packs a marketing punch which could help drive
>>> > adoption. The feature is only useful if/when broadly adopted.
>>>
>>> I'm very against the name "reusable addresses" and strongly belive we
>>> should stick with the name stealth addresses.
>>>
>>> You gotta look at it from the perspective of a user; lets take standard
>>> pay-to-pubkey-hash addresses: I can tell my wallet to pay one as many
>>> times as I want and everything works just great. I also can enter the
>>> address on blockchain.info's search box, and every transaction related
>>> to the address, and the balance of it, pops up immediately.
>>>
>>> What is that telling me? A: Addresses starting with "1" are reusable. B:
>>> Transactions associated with them appear to be public knowledge.
>>>
>>> Now I upgrade my wallet software and it says I now have a "reusable"
>>> address. My reaction is "Huh? Normal addresses are reusable, what's
>>> special about this weird reusable address thing that my buddy Bob's
>>> wallet software couldn't pay." I might even try to enter in a "reusable"
>>> address in blockchain.info, which won't work, and I'll just figure
>>> "must be some new unsupported thing" and move on with my life.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, suppose my wallet says I now have "stealth address"
>>> support. I'm going to think "Huh, stealth? I guess that means privacy
>>> right? I like privacy." If I try searching for a stealth address on
>>> blockchain.info, when it doesn't work I might think twig on "Oh right!
>>> It said stealth addresses are private, so maybe the transactions are
>>> hidden?" I might also think "Maybe this is like stealth/incognito mode
>>> in my browser? So like, there's no history being kept for others to
>>> see?" Regardless, I'm going to be thinking "well I hear scary stuff
>>> about Bitcoin privacy, and this stealth thing sounds like it's gonna
>>> help, so I should learn more about that"
>>>
>>> Finally keep in mind that stealth addresses have had a tonne of very
>>> fast, and very wide reaching PR. The name is in the public conciousness
>>> already, and trying to change it now just because of vague bad
>>> associations is going to throw away the momentum of that good PR and
>>> slow down adoption. Last night I was at the Toronto Bitcoin Meetup and I
>>> based on conversations there with people there, technical and
>>> non-technical, almost everyone had heard about them and almost everyone
>>> seemed to understand the basic idea of why they were a good thing. That
>>> just wouldn't have happened with a name that tried to hide what stealth
>>> addresses were for, and by changing the name now we risk people not
>>> making the connection when wallet software gets upgraded to support
>>> them.
>>>
>>> --
>>> 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
>>> 0000000000000001b0e0ae7ef97681ad77188030b6c791aef304947e6f524740
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
>>> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
>>> Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between.
>>> Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.
>>>
>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
>> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
>> Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between.
>> Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.
>>
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.
> Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For
> Critical Workloads, Development Environments & Everything In Between.
> Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.
>
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>

--047d7b66f9cbe9aacc04f02717a4
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<p dir=3D"ltr">So far I&#39;ve only liked the original name &quot;Stealth a=
ddress&quot; and the suggestion &quot;routing address&quot;. </p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">Should we put this up for some kind of informal vote with co=
mments allowed? Like a Google docs form? </p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">- Sent from my phone</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">Den 17 jan 2014 10:18 skrev &quot;Mike Hearn&quo=
t; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net">mike@plan99.net</a>&gt;:<br type=
=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr">I must say, this shed is mighty fine looking. It&#39;d be =
a great place to store our bikes. But, what colour should we paint it?<div>=
<br></div><div>How about we split the difference and go with &quot;privacy =
address&quot;? As Peter notes, that&#39;s what people actually like and wan=
t. The problem with stealth is it&#39;s got strong connotations with Americ=
an military hardware and perhaps thieves sneaking around in the night:</div=
>

<div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.google.com/search?t=
bm=3Disch&amp;q=3Dstealth" target=3D"_blank">https://www.google.com/search?=
tbm=3Disch&amp;q=3Dstealth</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>But everyone lo=
ves privacy.</div>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 17, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Drak <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:drak@zikula.org" target=3D"_blank">dr=
ak@zikula.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr">Peter I agree with you about =C2=A0&quot;reusable addresse=
s&quot;, but aren&#39;t we also trying to get away from the word &quot;addr=
ess&quot; entirely? =C2=A0How about calling it a &quot;payment key&quot; or=
 &quot;reusable payment key&quot; instead? using &quot;stealth&quot; is jus=
t asking for bad press imo.<br>




<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div>On =
16 January 2014 21:28, Peter Todd <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:p=
ete@petertodd.org" target=3D"_blank">pete@petertodd.org</a>&gt;</span> wrot=
e:<br>

</div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div>


<div>On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 04:05:27PM -0800, Jeremy Spilman wrote:<br>
&gt; Might I propose &quot;reusable address&quot;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I think that describes it best to any non-programmer, and even more<br=
>
&gt; so encourages wallets to present options as &#39;one time use&#39; vs<=
br>
&gt; &#39;reusable&#39;.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It definitely packs a marketing punch which could help drive<br>
&gt; adoption. The feature is only useful if/when broadly adopted.<br>
<br>
</div>I&#39;m very against the name &quot;reusable addresses&quot; and stro=
ngly belive we<br>
should stick with the name stealth addresses.<br>
<br>
You gotta look at it from the perspective of a user; lets take standard<br>
pay-to-pubkey-hash addresses: I can tell my wallet to pay one as many<br>
times as I want and everything works just great. I also can enter the<br>
address on <a href=3D"http://blockchain.info" target=3D"_blank">blockchain.=
info</a>&#39;s search box, and every transaction related<br>
to the address, and the balance of it, pops up immediately.<br>
<br>
What is that telling me? A: Addresses starting with &quot;1&quot; are reusa=
ble. B:<br>
Transactions associated with them appear to be public knowledge.<br>
<br>
Now I upgrade my wallet software and it says I now have a &quot;reusable&qu=
ot;<br>
address. My reaction is &quot;Huh? Normal addresses are reusable, what&#39;=
s<br>
special about this weird reusable address thing that my buddy Bob&#39;s<br>
wallet software couldn&#39;t pay.&quot; I might even try to enter in a &quo=
t;reusable&quot;<br>
address in <a href=3D"http://blockchain.info" target=3D"_blank">blockchain.=
info</a>, which won&#39;t work, and I&#39;ll just figure<br>
&quot;must be some new unsupported thing&quot; and move on with my life.<br=
>
<br>
On the other hand, suppose my wallet says I now have &quot;stealth address&=
quot;<br>
support. I&#39;m going to think &quot;Huh, stealth? I guess that means priv=
acy<br>
right? I like privacy.&quot; If I try searching for a stealth address on<br=
>
<a href=3D"http://blockchain.info" target=3D"_blank">blockchain.info</a>, w=
hen it doesn&#39;t work I might think twig on &quot;Oh right!<br>
It said stealth addresses are private, so maybe the transactions are<br>
hidden?&quot; I might also think &quot;Maybe this is like stealth/incognito=
 mode<br>
in my browser? So like, there&#39;s no history being kept for others to<br>
see?&quot; Regardless, I&#39;m going to be thinking &quot;well I hear scary=
 stuff<br>
about Bitcoin privacy, and this stealth thing sounds like it&#39;s gonna<br=
>
help, so I should learn more about that&quot;<br>
<br>
Finally keep in mind that stealth addresses have had a tonne of very<br>
fast, and very wide reaching PR. The name is in the public conciousness<br>
already, and trying to change it now just because of vague bad<br>
associations is going to throw away the momentum of that good PR and<br>
slow down adoption. Last night I was at the Toronto Bitcoin Meetup and I<br=
>
based on conversations there with people there, technical and<br>
non-technical, almost everyone had heard about them and almost everyone<br>
seemed to understand the basic idea of why they were a good thing. That<br>
just wouldn&#39;t have happened with a name that tried to hide what stealth=
<br>
addresses were for, and by changing the name now we risk people not<br>
making the connection when wallet software gets upgraded to support<br>
them.<br>
<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
--<br>
&#39;peter&#39;[:-1]@<a href=3D"http://petertodd.org" target=3D"_blank">pet=
ertodd.org</a><br>
0000000000000001b0e0ae7ef97681ad77188030b6c791aef304947e6f524740<br>
</font></span><br></div></div><div>----------------------------------------=
--------------------------------------<br>
CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.<br>
Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For<br>
Critical Workloads, Development Environments &amp; Everything In Between.<b=
r>
Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.<br>
<a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D119420431&amp;iu=
=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam=
pad/clk?id=3D119420431&amp;iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br>__________________=
_____________________________<br>





Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
<br>-----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------<br>
CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.<br>
Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For<br>
Critical Workloads, Development Environments &amp; Everything In Between.<b=
r>
Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.<br>
<a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D119420431&amp;iu=
=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam=
pad/clk?id=3D119420431&amp;iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br>__________________=
_____________________________<br>


Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
<br>-----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------<br>
CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services.<br>
Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For<br>
Critical Workloads, Development Environments &amp; Everything In Between.<b=
r>
Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today.<br>
<a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D119420431&amp;iu=
=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam=
pad/clk?id=3D119420431&amp;iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br>__________________=
_____________________________<br>

Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div>

--047d7b66f9cbe9aacc04f02717a4--