1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
|
Received: from sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.192]
helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
(envelope-from <slashdevnull@hotmail.com>) id 1Z5tDz-0003VX-PA
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Fri, 19 Jun 2015 10:08:39 +0000
Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of hotmail.com
designates 65.55.111.104 as permitted sender)
client-ip=65.55.111.104; envelope-from=slashdevnull@hotmail.com;
helo=BLU004-OMC2S29.hotmail.com;
Received: from blu004-omc2s29.hotmail.com ([65.55.111.104])
by sog-mx-2.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256)
(Exim 4.76) id 1Z5tDy-0002rA-Rq
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Fri, 19 Jun 2015 10:08:39 +0000
Received: from BLU436-SMTP59 ([65.55.111.72]) by BLU004-OMC2S29.hotmail.com
over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22751);
Fri, 19 Jun 2015 03:08:33 -0700
X-TMN: [GegZslVn2gl3bxlcei7ezFl4qtkQT7e0]
X-Originating-Email: [slashdevnull@hotmail.com]
Message-ID: <BLU436-SMTP59149F6EB242230C2DA453C6A40@phx.gbl>
User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.9.150325
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 17:08:19 +0700
From: GC <slashdevnull@hotmail.com>
To: Benjamin <benjamin.l.cordes@gmail.com>,
Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>
Thread-Topic: [Bitcoin-development] Concerns Regarding Threats by a Developer
to Remove Commit Access from Other Developers
References: <55828737.6000007@riseup.net>
<CABm2gDoa7KxsgvREo3yiNjfd6AeayqAqkjMe2rvX8yyxR_ddcA@mail.gmail.com>
<55831CAB.2080303@jrn.me.uk> <1867667.WXWC1C9quc@crushinator>
<CAOG=w-scXm-46sp2NgR2UUp20R5ujuaAzW-jU_Owh20C4Xc=9A@mail.gmail.com>
<CAJHLa0Mhnma8_ys2ckEA+dLT-EWnqO4j8YKMSaf3Tvv_K14czQ@mail.gmail.com>
<CAOG=w-tf7qz9XSkDg5POKtFLkHWDA==jf2iVxVL8wz1hqcAVOg@mail.gmail.com>
<CANEZrP33GCiZHK1GV2Qt_R_AHK6SEjybGPtmORjqgvQ9MiYVZQ@mail.gmail.com>
<CAOoPuRa2RRELMN4-1coe3ZDOHuxyp1YyX3t6aW+APhXJM8GpDw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAOoPuRa2RRELMN4-1coe3ZDOHuxyp1YyX3t6aW+APhXJM8GpDw@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Jun 2015 10:08:32.0960 (UTC)
FILETIME=[E5F4CC00:01D0AA77]
X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
-1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for
sender-domain
0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider
(slashdevnull[at]hotmail.com)
-0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/,
no trust [65.55.111.104 listed in list.dnswl.org]
-0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record
-0.3 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay
domain
X-Headers-End: 1Z5tDy-0002rA-Rq
Cc: Bitcoin Development <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>,
Gavin Andresen <gavin@bitcoinfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Concerns Regarding Threats by a Developer
to Remove Commit Access from Other Developers
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 10:08:39 -0000
Benjamin,
Timeframe for network congestion and users experiencing service
degradation =3D> between now and middle of next year.
Timeframe for transaction fees topping block reward fees =3D> many years in
the future, based on current ratio of block reward to fees.
What is the more pressing requirement now? A working =B3fee market=B2 or a
reliable, useful payment network that scales without falling over in the
next 2-3 years.
On 19/6/15 4:53 pm, "Benjamin" <benjamin.l.cordes@gmail.com> wrote:
>Yeah, but increasing block-size is not a longterm solution. Necessary
>higher fees are a logical consequence of lower subsidies. Bitcoin was
>basically free to use at the beginning because miners got paid with
>new coins at the expense of those who already hold coins. Eventually
>there needs to be a mechanism which matches supply and demand.
>
>On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:
>>> Or alternatively, fix the reasons why users would have negative
>>> experiences with full blocks
>>
>>
>> It's impossible, Mark. By definition if Bitcoin does not have sufficient
>> capacity for everyone's transactions, some users who were using it will
>>be
>> kicked out to make way for the others. Whether that happens in some
>>kind of
>> stable organised way or (as with the current code) a fairly chaotic way
>> doesn't change the fundamental truth: some users will find their bitcoin
>> savings have become uneconomic to spend.
>>
>> Here's a recent user complaint that provides a preview of coming
>> attractions:
>>
>>=20
>>https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/39r3bi/breadwallet_asking_me_to
>>_pay_over_10_network_fee/
>>
>>> Hello, I'm just trying to send my small Sarutobi-tips stash (12,159
>>>bits)
>>> onto a paper wallet. When I try to send it, a window pops up stating
>>> "insufficient funds for bitcoin network fee, reduce payment amount by
>>>1,389
>>> bits?" This would be a fee of $0.32 to send my $2.82, leaving me with
>>>$2.50.
>>
>>
>> These sorts of complaints will get more frequent and more extreme in the
>> coming months. I realise that nobody at Blockstream is in the position
>>of
>> running an end user facing service, but many of us are .... and we will
>>be
>> the ones that face the full anger of ordinary users as Bitcoin hits the
>> wall.
>>
>>=20
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-----
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>_______________________________________________
>Bitcoin-development mailing list
>Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
|
