1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
|
Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193]
helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
(envelope-from <jgarzik@bitpay.com>) id 1UjCBZ-0006qi-0D
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Sun, 02 Jun 2013 17:35:17 +0000
Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of bitpay.com
designates 209.85.128.48 as permitted sender)
client-ip=209.85.128.48; envelope-from=jgarzik@bitpay.com;
helo=mail-qe0-f48.google.com;
Received: from mail-qe0-f48.google.com ([209.85.128.48])
by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
(Exim 4.76) id 1UjCBY-0003j4-8t
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Sun, 02 Jun 2013 17:35:16 +0000
Received: by mail-qe0-f48.google.com with SMTP id 2so348205qea.7
for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>;
Sun, 02 Jun 2013 10:35:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=google.com; s=20120113;
h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state;
bh=/LG3MP+PHsjTfqJsFUNPRQ8X/poWANrdGla7ChsXKMg=;
b=m1bV5kS3Z5mJxjS3clTPx04O2TRdMqbsxuL8LZ3DUJBj1j9GAQCjZMGtIxecRqsSGq
5v23dT7mHon+nRMtS9B3SAslafd38IMa7YpNOdJTcXbMIEogFgoWhignqo0YdY0p+Rpu
QXIJeFcDA9tGF0C8B3ypWyDsQ6TYw5pw1zUfQ8Gpvij67rTy/yjDesF858MOxXtS8dbC
NrDgu7vJ2ujVGtfVDGnTB8MH1RWHnwKfXVan5AS2epoEf3V/6Fk6B8u8ohlFPSKUEeRr
XcRK1Z1fXsvCKX0vBVUVhvdIaaQB+lciXsyiRSF3LM6oyCLQURMUKh5UW1pj6SFp+z/T
Iicw==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.229.198.202 with SMTP id ep10mr6471621qcb.31.1370194510719;
Sun, 02 Jun 2013 10:35:10 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.49.2.102 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Jun 2013 10:35:10 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <20130602061327.GA14148@savin>
References: <20130601193036.GA13873@savin>
<38A06794-B6B4-45F3-99C1-24B08434536D@gmail.com>
<20130602061327.GA14148@savin>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 13:35:10 -0400
Message-ID: <CAJHLa0OEUfsZX5caF-urE+Tu9tpgf9xuVjskfoEC8nXO2yZ4ow@mail.gmail.com>
From: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay.com>
To: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkv/l0vPuU1ASq7I6lYnWhKPKGW9syXvMy+2Qwa81P0bzf2PrbfWM0jp5QTAtgdYXPeML8Z
X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
-1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for
sender-domain
-0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record
-0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from
author's domain
0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature,
not necessarily valid
-0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
X-Headers-End: 1UjCBY-0003j4-8t
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proposal: soft-fork to make
anyone-can-spend outputs unspendable for 100 blocks
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2013 17:35:17 -0000
On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 2:13 AM, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org> wrote:
> I'd say we tell people to sacrifice to (provably) unspendable for now
> and do a soft-fork later if there is real demand for this stuff in the
> future.
That seems fair.
In general, people are actively bloating the UTXO set with unspendable
outputs (that cannot be 100% proven unspendable). Provably
unspendable seems like an improvement on long term UTXO health.
It is a fair criticism that this inches the incentives, a bit, towards
timestamping and other non-currency uses. But those uses (a) cannot
be prevented and (b) have already been automated anyway (e.g. the
python upload/download tools stored in-chain).
I do think the overwhelming majority of users are invested in
bitcoin-the-currency (or bitcoin-the-commodity, take your pick), i.e.
the value proposition. That's our 98% use case. Given the relative
volumes of traffic, timestamping/data storage/messaging is essentially
getting a free ride. So IMO it is worth continuing to explore
/disincentives/ for use of the blockchain for data storage and
messaging, for the rare times where a clear currency-or-data-storage
incentive is available.
--
Jeff Garzik
Senior Software Engineer and open source evangelist
BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/
|