1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
|
Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191]
helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
by sfs-ml-2.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
(envelope-from <mh.in.england@gmail.com>) id 1We7BW-0007kA-RM
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Sat, 26 Apr 2014 18:18:46 +0000
Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com
designates 209.85.214.172 as permitted sender)
client-ip=209.85.214.172; envelope-from=mh.in.england@gmail.com;
helo=mail-ob0-f172.google.com;
Received: from mail-ob0-f172.google.com ([209.85.214.172])
by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
(Exim 4.76) id 1We7BR-0008S8-Uw
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Sat, 26 Apr 2014 18:18:46 +0000
Received: by mail-ob0-f172.google.com with SMTP id wo20so5641606obc.17
for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>;
Sat, 26 Apr 2014 11:18:36 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.60.141.9 with SMTP id rk9mr13421712oeb.12.1398536316605;
Sat, 26 Apr 2014 11:18:36 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: mh.in.england@gmail.com
Received: by 10.76.96.180 with HTTP; Sat, 26 Apr 2014 11:18:36 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <1398422100.68438.YahooMailNeo@web160505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1398382335.20219.YahooMailNeo@web160503.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
<20140425073334.GV3180@nl.grid.coop>
<D95AE4AB-DC67-4136-901A-D8F712EB7357@acidhou.se>
<1398422100.68438.YahooMailNeo@web160505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2014 20:18:36 +0200
X-Google-Sender-Auth: r1pbgsaGVQyBatgl9wi6Vrq8ie0
Message-ID: <CANEZrP36FOqU_+QjjsGiWtbqHg4zQnwz=F+51CE4ngFXb=k+0Q@mail.gmail.com>
From: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>
To: Stephen Reed <stephenreed@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3a9cac5b595f04f7f61cc0
X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
-1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for
sender-domain
0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider
(mh.in.england[at]gmail.com)
-0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record
1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature,
not necessarily valid
-0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
X-Headers-End: 1We7BR-0008S8-Uw
Cc: Jeffrey Paul <sneak@acidhou.se>,
"bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net"
<bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Proof-of-Stake branch?
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2014 18:18:47 -0000
--047d7b3a9cac5b595f04f7f61cc0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Please be aware that your emails are being spamfoldered by Gmail. This is
because Yahoo has enabled DMARC enforcement for mail sent from Yahoo and
that renders it incompatible with Sourceforge mailing lists.
There are two fixes:
1) Don't use Yahoo.
2) The real fix which is, we should stop using Sourceforge mailing list
software
Fundamentally all Yahoo is saying with their policy is that rewriting of
mails sent from their service is not allowed. This is a highly reasonable
policy, akin to forbidding SSL MITM attacks, but for email.
There are several ways to be compatible with this policy: unfortunately
sf.net doesn't do any of them.
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Stephen Reed <stephenreed@yahoo.com>wrote:
> My understanding is that sidechains require merged mining support and that
> sidechains create no coinbase transactions themselves. When Bitcoin Core
> supports the two-way peg then I would update my source code branch to
> incorporate that or any other change that is released. Ideally, when
> sidechains can work with PoW Bitcoin, then those same sidechains should
> work without any changes with PoS Bitcoin running in my testnet.
>
> I will be examining PPC, NXT and whitepapers for ideas that I can
> implement in such a way as the result can be called Bitcoin. The only
> difference would be the absence of wasteful Proof-of-Work, and the presence
> of mining rewards distributed to full nodes in proportion to the amount of
> bitcoin each is willing to expose to the network. Coin age is a good
> starting point. A reference peer-to-peer pool developed by me would be
> responsible for fairly distributing the mining rewards as daily dividend
> payments to PoS full node pool members.
>
> In a few days, I plan to establish a Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin project thread
> in the Project Development sub-forum of Bitcointalk. We can continue the
> technical discussion there, starting with a list of principles.
>
>
> Stephen L. Reed
> Austin, Texas, USA
> 512.791.7860
>
> On Friday, April 25, 2014 4:42 AM, Jeffrey Paul <sneak@acidhou.se> wrote:
>
> Are proof of stake blockchains compatible with the sidechain/two-way peg
> system invented by Greg (and maybe others - reports unclear)?
> >
> >http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blockchain-2-0-let-a-thousand-chains-blossom/
> >
> >It's my limited understanding that any sidechains in such a model are
> somewhat cryptographically tied to the PoW system that bitcoin's chain
> uses. I am seriously curious if alternate decentralized consensus
> algorithms (proof of execution, proof of stake, et c) are compatible with
> the sidechain universe as envisioned.
> >
> >Perhaps someone with a deeper technical understanding could explain how,
> if so, or if my incomplete hunch (that alternate consensus algorithms
> cannot retain compatibility with Bitcoin in a two way peg model) is correct.
> >
> >These sorts of "alternate universe" altcoin experiments with different
> proof models take on a different cost/benefit ratio if they can't ever
> interoperate as sidechains, which is why I'm curious.
> >
> >Best,
> >-jp
> >
> >--
> >Jeffrey Paul +1 (312) 361-0355
> >5539 AD00 DE4C 42F3 AFE1 1575 0524 43F4 DF2A 55C2
> >
> >
> >> On 25.04.2014, at 00:33, Troy Benjegerdes <hozer@hozed.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> This also might be an interesting application of the side
> >> chains concept Peter Todd has discussed.
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform
> Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
> Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
> Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
--047d7b3a9cac5b595f04f7f61cc0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">Please be aware that your emails are being spamfoldered by=
Gmail. This is because Yahoo has enabled DMARC enforcement for mail sent f=
rom Yahoo and that renders it incompatible with Sourceforge mailing lists.<=
div>
<br></div><div>There are two fixes:</div><div><br></div><div>1) Don't u=
se Yahoo.</div><div><br></div><div>2) The real fix which is, we should stop=
using Sourceforge mailing list software</div><div><br></div><div>Fundament=
ally all Yahoo is saying with their policy is that rewriting of mails sent =
from their service is not allowed. This is a highly reasonable policy, akin=
to forbidding SSL MITM attacks, but for email.</div>
<div><br></div><div>There are several ways to be compatible with this polic=
y: unfortunately <a href=3D"http://sf.net">sf.net</a> doesn't do any of=
them.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Stephe=
n Reed <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:stephenreed@yahoo.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">stephenreed@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex">
My understanding is that sidechains require merged mining support and that =
sidechains create no coinbase transactions themselves. When Bitcoin Core su=
pports the two-way peg then I would update my source code branch to incorpo=
rate that or any other change that is released. Ideally, when sidechains ca=
n work with PoW Bitcoin, then those same sidechains should work without any=
changes with PoS Bitcoin running in my testnet.<br>
<br>
I will be examining PPC, NXT and whitepapers for ideas that I can implement=
in such a way as the result can be called Bitcoin. The only difference wou=
ld be the absence of wasteful Proof-of-Work, and the presence of mining rew=
ards distributed to full nodes in proportion to the amount of bitcoin each =
is willing to expose to the network. Coin age is a good starting point. A r=
eference peer-to-peer pool developed by me would be responsible for fairly =
distributing the mining rewards as daily dividend payments to PoS full node=
pool members.<br>
<br>
In a few days, I plan to establish a Proof-of-Stake Bitcoin project thread =
in the Project Development sub-forum of Bitcointalk. We can continue the te=
chnical discussion there, starting with a list of principles.<br>
<div class=3D""><br>
<br>
Stephen L. Reed<br>
Austin, Texas, USA<br>
512.791.7860<br>
<br>
</div>On Friday, April 25, 2014 4:42 AM, Jeffrey Paul <<a href=3D"mailto=
:sneak@acidhou.se">sneak@acidhou.se</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Are proof of stake blockchains compatible with the sidechain/two-way peg sy=
stem invented by Greg (and maybe others - reports unclear)?<br>
><br>
><a href=3D"http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blockchain-2-0-let-a-thousand-cha=
ins-blossom/">http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blockchain-2-0-let-a-thousand-chai=
ns-blossom/</a><br>
><br>
>It's my limited understanding that any sidechains in such a model a=
re somewhat cryptographically tied to the PoW system that bitcoin's cha=
in uses. I am seriously curious if alternate decentralized consensus algori=
thms (proof of execution, proof of stake, et c) are compatible with the sid=
echain universe as envisioned.<br>
><br>
>Perhaps someone with a deeper technical understanding could explain how=
, if so, or if my incomplete hunch (that alternate consensus algorithms can=
not retain compatibility with Bitcoin in a two way peg model) is correct.<b=
r>
><br>
>These sorts of "alternate universe" altcoin experiments with =
different proof models take on a different cost/benefit ratio if they can&#=
39;t ever interoperate as sidechains, which is why I'm curious.<br>
><br>
>Best,<br>
>-jp<br>
><br>
>--<br>
>Jeffrey Paul=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"tel:%2B1%20%28312%29%20361-035=
5" value=3D"+13123610355">+1 (312) 361-0355</a><br>
>5539 AD00 DE4C 42F3 AFE1 1575 0524 43F4 DF2A 55C2<br>
><br>
><br>
>> On 25.04.2014, at 00:33, Troy Benjegerdes <<a href=3D"mailto:ho=
zer@hozed.org">hozer@hozed.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> This also might be an interesting application of the side<br>
>> chains concept Peter Todd has discussed.<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5">><br>
>=C2=A0<br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---<br>
Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform<br>
Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software<br>
Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready<br>
Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform<br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform">http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform=
</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
--047d7b3a9cac5b595f04f7f61cc0--
|
