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From: Bedri Ozgur Guler <bedriguler@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2018 18:47:09 +0300
Message-ID: <CAAVrV-xFtTZMjrBa_zvgDjwAJV7gz-6Y8usyE8oM_EMDvHRiYg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Jameson Lopp <jameson.lopp@gmail.com>,
Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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--94eb2c1cd364bda21a056519eaaf
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Hello,
The use of name Bitcoin cannot be avoided due to it's nature of being a
Protocol. Prohibition of usage of it as a "brand name" is just like
prohibiting the word "Linux", which is the name of the kernel, being used
as a brand name or part of a brand name. If that had happened, systems
based on Linux kernel couldn't have used Linux word in their brands. The
licence in the Linux example is GPL but it does not really differ so much.
Making a protocol name a Trademark(TM) name and prohibiting it's use may
solve some confusions and bad reputation causing actions but it also
prohibits the protocol to be used widely so damages the credibility of the
protocol itself which was born to be an independent, freedom-based,
government-free, boundaries-free etc. approach to the current corrupted
monetary system.
If precautions should be taken to control the usage of Bitcoin word in
various positions and cases, it should be done in such a way that it should
not contradict with the philosophy of the Bitcoin itself. Social
/marketing-based approaches proposed by Jameson Lopp will be more logical
and freedom based. Trademarking and in some sense Cartel-ing the Bitcoin
Protocol who arose against trademarks and cartels on "money" will destroy
it's own roots and birth-right of existence in my opinion.
Bedri =C3=96zg=C3=BCr G=C3=BCler
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 6:24 PM, Jameson Lopp via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> If I'm understanding the problem being stated correctly:
>
> "Bitcoin is under a branding attack by fork coins."
>
> The proposed solution is to disincentivize fork coins from using the word
> Bitcoin by altering the license terms. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to =
me
> that the words of the license are basically useless unless there is an
> entity that intends to make use of court systems to threaten noncompliant
> projects into submission.
>
> In my opinion, the perceived attack on Bitcoin here is social /
> marketing-based, thus it makes sense that any defense against said attack
> should also be social / marketing-based. I don't think that Bitcoin shoul=
d
> be reliant upon courts or governments to defend itself against attacks of
> any form.
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:25 AM, Natanael via bitcoin-dev <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Den 13 feb. 2018 15:07 skrev "JOSE FEMENIAS CA=C3=91UELO via bitcoin-dev=
" <
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>:
>>
>> ***
>> NO PART OF THIS SOFTWARE CAN BE INCLUDED IN ANY OTHER PROJECT THAT USES
>> THE NAME BITCOIN AS PART OF ITS NAME AND/OR ITS MARKETING MATERIAL UNLES=
S
>> THE SOFTWARE PRODUCED BY THAT PROJECT IS FULLY COMPATIBLE WITH THE BITCO=
IN
>> (CORE) BLOCKCHAIN
>> ***
>>
>>
>> That's better solved with trademarks. (whoever would be the trademark
>> holder - Satoshi?)
>>
>> This would also prohibit any reimplementation that's not formally
>> verified to be perfectly compatible from using the name.
>>
>> It also adds legal uncertainty.
>>
>> Another major problem is that it neither affects anybody forking older
>> versions of Bitcoin, not people using existing independent blockchain
>> implementations and renaming them Bitcoin-Whatsoever.
>>
>> And what happens when an old version is technically incompatible with a
>> future version by the Core team due to not understanding various new
>> softforks? Which version wins the right to the name?
>>
>> Also, being unable to even mention Bitcoin is overkill.
>>
>> The software license also don't affect the blockchain data.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
--94eb2c1cd364bda21a056519eaaf
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hello,<div>The use of name Bitcoin cannot be avoided due t=
o it's nature of being a Protocol. Prohibition of usage of it as a &quo=
t;brand name" is just like prohibiting the word "Linux", whi=
ch is the name of the kernel, being used as a brand name or part of a brand=
name. If that had happened, systems based on Linux kernel couldn't hav=
e used Linux word in their brands. The licence in the Linux example is GPL =
but it does not really differ so much.</div><div>Making a protocol name a T=
rademark(TM) name and prohibiting it's use may solve some confusions an=
d bad reputation causing actions but it also prohibits the protocol to be u=
sed widely so damages the credibility of the protocol itself which was born=
to be an independent, freedom-based, government-free, boundaries-free etc.=
approach to the current corrupted monetary system.</div><div><br></div><di=
v>If precautions should be taken to control the usage of Bitcoin word in va=
rious positions and cases, it should be done in such a way that it should n=
ot contradict with the philosophy of the Bitcoin itself. Social /marketing-=
based approaches proposed by=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-f=
amily:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-liga=
tures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left=
;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:nowrap;word-spacing:0px;ba=
ckground-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decorati=
on-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Jameson Lopp</span> will be mor=
e logical and freedom based. Trademarking and in some sense Cartel-ing the =
Bitcoin Protocol who arose against trademarks and cartels on "money&qu=
ot; will destroy it's own roots and birth-right of=C2=A0existence in my=
opinion.</div><div><br></div><div>Bedri =C3=96zg=C3=BCr G=C3=BCler</div></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 1=
3, 2018 at 6:24 PM, Jameson Lopp via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitc=
oin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">If I'm understanding the problem being =
stated correctly:<br><br>"Bitcoin is under a branding attack by fork c=
oins."<div><br></div><div>The proposed solution is to disincentivize f=
ork coins from using the word Bitcoin by altering the license terms. I'=
m not a lawyer, but it seems to me that the words of the license are basica=
lly useless unless there is an entity that intends to make use of court sys=
tems to threaten noncompliant projects into submission.</div><div><br></div=
><div>In my opinion, the perceived attack on Bitcoin here is social / marke=
ting-based, thus it makes sense that any defense against said attack should=
also be social / marketing-based. I don't think that Bitcoin should be=
reliant upon courts or governments to defend itself against attacks of any=
form.</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"=
><div><div class=3D"h5">On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:25 AM, Natanael via bitco=
in-dev <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfound=
ation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a>=
></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><di=
v class=3D"h5"><div dir=3D"auto"><span><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">Den 13 feb. 2018 15:07 skrev "JOSE FEME=
NIAS CA=C3=91UELO via bitcoin-dev" <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@l=
ists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfounda<w=
br>tion.org</a>>:<blockquote class=3D"m_-4780499977721016034m_4333531158=
757201305quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;paddi=
ng-left:1ex">
***<br>
NO PART OF THIS SOFTWARE CAN BE INCLUDED IN ANY OTHER PROJECT THAT USES THE=
NAME BITCOIN AS PART OF ITS NAME AND/OR ITS MARKETING MATERIAL UNLESS THE =
SOFTWARE PRODUCED BY THAT PROJECT IS FULLY COMPATIBLE WITH THE BITCOIN (COR=
E) BLOCKCHAIN<br>
***<br></blockquote></div></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div></span><d=
iv dir=3D"auto">That's better solved with trademarks. (whoever would be=
the trademark holder - Satoshi?)=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"auto">This would also prohibit any reimplementation that=
9;s not formally verified to be perfectly compatible from using the name.=
=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">It also adds lega=
l uncertainty.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Ano=
ther major problem is that it neither affects anybody forking older version=
s of Bitcoin, not people using existing independent blockchain implementati=
ons and renaming them Bitcoin-Whatsoever.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">And what happens when an old version is technically=
incompatible with a future version by the Core team due to not understandi=
ng various new softforks? Which version wins the right to the name?=C2=A0</=
div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Also, being unable to eve=
n mention Bitcoin is overkill.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"auto">The software license also don't affect the blockchain data=
.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gm=
ail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"m_-4780499977721=
016034m_4333531158757201305quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"></blockquote></div></div></div></div>
<br></div></div><span class=3D"">______________________________<wbr>_______=
__________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundat<wbr>ion.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-d<wbr>ev</a><br>
<br></span></blockquote></div><br></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-<wbr>dev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
--94eb2c1cd364bda21a056519eaaf--
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