1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
|
Return-Path: <tobypadilla@gmail.com>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
[172.17.192.35])
by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97CC1E8E
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 26 Jan 2016 03:17:13 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mail-vk0-f46.google.com (mail-vk0-f46.google.com
[209.85.213.46])
by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F202B63
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 26 Jan 2016 03:17:12 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-vk0-f46.google.com with SMTP id e185so84901671vkb.1
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Mon, 25 Jan 2016 19:17:12 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
:cc:content-type;
bh=cUvfx6MaJibBNJbAAylxg7fvN49QAkTncVTVeMy0CPA=;
b=B4nsy3FsmF0LOWrquVqhVOyBGqnObh9qw/shbO/2TPp0pfE3GFTzAtR412AgAcoOtx
104qwgGF2WYuq+phTjM9YeEVHd76bPdI9ZChpMVtlV+NOZN35V9M+5kea7PCwRf2Quv1
bI7aXyo/FJb1YoPEutJoTklxinCn3y6R+cB34Jz1qpWKRv/2b6beF6FDzKynRzWyAwq+
y7NXG+pgUXAfykS/lqNZ+czL/zhRz5It8vC0p/9HEP7fmV+rCP3MXx7QI4u9fqY9UjVT
BTbN7YQOJX97CazRidtppu0LIDKXcgzVZVxEjNdX7gQMntdmGn/ADGhqslAGLdzlRqWA
rg6w==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20130820;
h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type;
bh=cUvfx6MaJibBNJbAAylxg7fvN49QAkTncVTVeMy0CPA=;
b=mjrz6V6QwqpNWZM9cTQqP/VVFLC3lOlX2QEnj8k9wEjkrtBiDg1a1T3coMTrqj3HKm
i1OdTXiOX9zcrfw0CqSSf3923GhrhZfgGMpkMr/hqhCsAmXlImNM9XcEfpkpbhsA+EDg
GLi70hvJM3AySJXlFM70hhkxDIZd+kRTvlXitlCEwyq1+QEj/6lS0ed7S+nDDWxKTryf
fp4ZHsozGZz/POTzjX0H1t9wjLQs4T5GQr9irCoUAHmxRM9CX82eHZRxBXk1DpVBW100
NZgvpwN9WqPz2TTorhZrfUwhDlPB1uwieoo0b+eK91sWp2Sy94UjFdwrle7zLS/L4tlm
NTkg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOTCkwAtIWlGbH6CQw+gaoDVkLdib6c4UNn2vYddVROVXp4GiPxRpQybYh7nBOSwAW/AFBssCnq2cEJrcw==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.31.9.72 with SMTP id 69mr11531504vkj.126.1453778232121; Mon,
25 Jan 2016 19:17:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.31.96.85 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Jan 2016 19:17:12 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <201601260312.25248.luke@dashjr.org>
References: <CAGcHOzzde_T3xJwJL2Ehyw7U1FgxEEBJR30VBLdSZMj=W49hSg@mail.gmail.com>
<201601260304.34013.luke@dashjr.org>
<CAGcHOzy9nSTLKjgiV3mDcawJaL-MiTAscSO4Ok0Lz9ysWBoKNg@mail.gmail.com>
<201601260312.25248.luke@dashjr.org>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 19:17:12 -0800
Message-ID: <CAGcHOzw88za1m6uJY9MBO2X=3psNk667FyBOHz2XCPO3ABbcRw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Toby Padilla <tobypadilla@gmail.com>
To: Luke Dashjr <luke@dashjr.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11440dfa1ba168052a341fc8
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE,
RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, URIBL_SBL autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
smtp1.linux-foundation.org
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 00:49:29 +0000
Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] [BIP Draft] Allow zero value OP_RETURN in Payment
Protocol
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 03:17:13 -0000
--001a11440dfa1ba168052a341fc8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I don't think every application of OP_RETURN could be classified as "spam".
I also don't think burning the value is going to dissuade anyone from going
down that route. I don't think lost value is better for anyone.
On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Luke Dashjr <luke@dashjr.org> wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 3:07:40 AM Toby Padilla wrote:
> > > I don't see any benefit to changing that. It is better that coins are
> > > burned.
> >
> > I think this is our fundamental disagreement. People will burn coins to
> > encode data, why allow this when there's a better alternative?
>
> My point is that there isn't a better alternative. The coins being burned,
> is
> strictly better than it being gratis.
>
> > > You *always* need a key, to redeem inputs... regardless of values.
> >
> > Correct, but with BIP70 that key is in the user's wallet and you can
> > construct transactions on another machine (thus not needing a key during
> > construction). Right now there's no way to do the transaction
> construction
> > on another machine with zero value OP_RETURNs.
>
> This is also a good thing. Spam should not be made easier or cheaper.
>
> Luke
>
--001a11440dfa1ba168052a341fc8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">I don't think every application of OP_RETURN could be =
classified as "spam". I also don't think burning the value is=
going to dissuade anyone from going down that route. I don't think los=
t value is better for anyone.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Luke Dashjr <span dir=3D=
"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:luke@dashjr.org" target=3D"_blank">luke@dashjr.=
org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"=
">On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 3:07:40 AM Toby Padilla wrote:<br>
> > I don't see any benefit to changing that. It is better that c=
oins are<br>
> > burned.<br>
><br>
> I think this is our fundamental disagreement. People will burn coins t=
o<br>
> encode data, why allow this when there's a better alternative?<br>
<br>
</span>My point is that there isn't a better alternative. The coins bei=
ng burned, is<br>
strictly better than it being gratis.<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
> > You *always* need a key, to redeem inputs... regardless of values=
.<br>
><br>
> Correct, but with BIP70 that key is in the user's wallet and you c=
an<br>
> construct transactions on another machine (thus not needing a key duri=
ng<br>
> construction). Right now there's no way to do the transaction cons=
truction<br>
> on another machine with zero value OP_RETURNs.<br>
<br>
</span>This is also a good thing. Spam should not be made easier or cheaper=
.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Luke<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>
--001a11440dfa1ba168052a341fc8--
|
