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From: Karl <gmkarl@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2021 05:20:55 -0500
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To: =?UTF-8?Q?H=C3=A9ctor_Jos=C3=A9_C=C3=A1rdenas_Pacheco?=
 <hcarpach@gmail.com>, 
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Cc: lightning-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Sending OP_RETURN via Bitcoin Lightning
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Hi,

I'm not a bitcoin developer.

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021, 5:05 AM H=C3=A9ctor Jos=C3=A9 C=C3=A1rdenas Pacheco vi=
a bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I=E2=80=99ve been thinking about how OP_RETURN is being used to create an=
d trade
> NFTs on Bitcoin (think RarePepes, SoG and other new ones) and was wonderi=
ng
> if it=E2=80=99s possible to
>

Do you have a link to any of these protocols?

make transactions with this opcode via Lightning.
>
> More specific questions could be:
>
>    1. Can opcodes like OP_RETURN be inside a channel=E2=80=99s opening or=
 closing
>    transaction?
>    2. If so, could that OP_RETURN change hands within that channel or
>    network of channels?
>
> OP_RETURNs do not have ownership according to the bitcoin network.  It is
not hard to define a protocol that associates an OP_RETURN with ownership,
and ownership could then be transferred via lightning by sending associated
currency via lightning.  Robustness improvements seem possible.


>    1. If possible, could the OP_RETURN be divisible? Could one person
>    send a piece of a OP_RETURN just like one can do right now on the prim=
ary
>    ledger or would it need to maintain the OP_RETURN code intact?
>
> OP_RETURNs themselves do not have ownership, but you can define a protoco=
l
that gives them divisible ownership, including via lightning.

I=E2=80=99m assuming that, if possible, this would need a protocol layer pa=
rallel
> to Bitcoin/Lightning that stores and reads all Bitcoin transactions and t=
he
> ones which involve the node's channels as well as the ones with the
> OP_RETURN, just like CounterParty does right now with the primary ledger.
>
> Thank in advance.
> =E2=80=94=E2=80=94
>
> *H=C3=A9ctor C=C3=A1rdenas*@hcarpach
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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<div dir=3D"auto"><div>Hi,</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"aut=
o">I&#39;m not a bitcoin developer.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote" dir=
=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 6, 2021, 5:05 A=
M H=C3=A9ctor Jos=C3=A9 C=C3=A1rdenas Pacheco via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfo=
undation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div st=
yle=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div dir=3D"auto"=
 style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div dir=3D"au=
to" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div dir=3D=
"auto" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Hello al=
l,<div><br></div><div>I=E2=80=99ve been thinking about how OP_RETURN is bei=
ng used to create and trade NFTs on Bitcoin (think RarePepes, SoG and other=
 new ones) and was wondering if it=E2=80=99s possible to</div></div></div><=
/div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"auto">Do you have a link to any of these protocols?</div><div dir=3D"auto"=
><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-spa=
ce"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-=
space"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-whi=
te-space"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-=
white-space"><div> make transactions with this opcode via Lightning.</div><=
div><br></div><div>More specific questions could be:</div><div><ol><li>Can =
opcodes like OP_RETURN be inside a channel=E2=80=99s opening or closing tra=
nsaction?</li><li>If so, could that OP_RETURN change hands within that chan=
nel or network of channels?</li></ol></div></div></div></div></div></blockq=
uote></div></div><div dir=3D"auto">OP_RETURNs do not have ownership accordi=
ng to the bitcoin network.=C2=A0 It is not hard to define a protocol that a=
ssociates an OP_RETURN with ownership, and ownership could then be transfer=
red via lightning by sending associated currency via lightning.=C2=A0 Robus=
tness improvements seem possible.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div st=
yle=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div dir=3D"auto"=
 style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div dir=3D"au=
to" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div dir=3D=
"auto" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><ol=
><li>If possible, could the OP_RETURN be divisible? Could one person send a=
 piece of a OP_RETURN just like one can do right now on the primary ledger =
or would it need to maintain the OP_RETURN code intact?</li></ol></div></di=
v></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir=3D"auto">OP_RETURNs t=
hemselves do not have ownership, but you can define a protocol that gives t=
hem divisible ownership, including via lightning.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><b=
r></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><=
div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space=
"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-sp=
ace"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white=
-space"><div>I=E2=80=99m assuming that, if possible, this would need a prot=
ocol layer parallel to Bitcoin/Lightning that stores and reads all Bitcoin =
transactions and the ones which involve the node&#39;s channels as well as =
the ones with the OP_RETURN, just like CounterParty does right now with the=
 primary ledger.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank in advance.</div></div><div=
>
<div>=E2=80=94=E2=80=94<br><b>H=C3=A9ctor C=C3=A1rdenas<br></b>@hcarpach</d=
iv>
</div>

<br></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noreferrer">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundati=
on.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div></div>

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