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From: Lonero Foundation <loneroassociation@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2021 22:58:45 -0400
Message-ID: <CA+YkXXyb+ajOY237Q==NOWqOnbMARZ=54_GF62rMMo2XBk-U-A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Eric Martindale <eric@ericmartindale.com>
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Cc: Devrandom <c1.devrandom@niftybox.net>,
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST
 Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining
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Actually disregard my last email, I realize you were replying to somebody
else instead of me. Please for proposals not related to my BIP, such as a
form of "luck chance lottery", post in a different discussion thread as to
not draw confusion.

Best regards, Andrew

On Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 10:51 PM Lonero Foundation <
loneroassociation@gmail.com> wrote:

> I also want to emphasize that Bitcoin's energy consumption is growing at
> an exponential rate because of complexity. That in itself is a good thing
> security-wise. However, there are limitations to the cryptography it is
> using and the efficiency it is going about mining the way it is currently
> done.
>
> Bitcoin can have this massive carbon footprint all become meaningless if
> there is better math. So far we already outpaced many of the the more
> traditional forms of cryptographic protocols Bitcoin is currently using,
> including both for its mining and key validation. The hardware specificness
> is also too limited.
>
> My proposal doesn't redesign the way Bitcoin is structured or its system,
> rather it focuses on improvement or replacing what is outdated, and making
> it more resistant to centralization, forced monopolization or an attack.
>
> On Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 10:32 PM Lonero Foundation <
> loneroassociation@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi, just to clarify this isn't a trade-off on security. Infact, my
>> proposal actually increases the level of security that Bitcoin currently
>> has. There is both an efficiency and cryptography aspect to this proposal.
>> I talked about the higher levels of security a bit in my BIP, and have
>> talked to a few about energy consumption.
>>
>> Outside of consumption of energy however, is the fact that BTC can be
>> more adaptable towards a major range of hardware without disenfranchising
>> others or other major trade-offs. There is no need for BTC to specifically
>> be tailored towards ASICs if the same level of proof of work can be done
>> from other hardware sources at similar costs. The technology and level of
>> cryptography between now and when Satoshi started BTC development 14 years
>> ago is also fastly different. BTC went from you can mine lots of Bitcoin by
>> literally downloading the whitepaper, to USB miners, to ASICs to now whole
>> entire mining centers.
>>
>> This is because of complexity, but that complexity in the near future can
>> be entirely meaningless if it is vulnerable to some of the things many
>> cryptography experts are worried about. Keep in mind this is in draft mode,
>> but over time as further implementation is done, alot of the community
>> including yourself might start being impressed by the more and more
>> tangible results.
>>
>> Best regards, Andrew
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 10:02 PM Eric Martindale <eric@ericmartindale.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Bitcoin's security is derived from the energy consumption of mining, so
>>> reducing the overall expenditure would be an objective decrease in
>>> resilience.  As a miner, your efficiency at converting energy into
>>> hashpower is the driving factor in your profitability, so this and any
>>> other future attempts to decrease the cost of attacking Bitcoin receives a
>>> hard NACK from me.
>>>
>>> If you're concerned about missing out on the subsidy or fee revenue,
>>> grab any number of the sub-500mSAT USB miners and get access to cheap power.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Eric Martindale, relentless maker.
>>> Founder & CEO, Fabric, Inc. <https://fabric.fm>
>>> +1 (919) 374-2020
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2021 at 9:41 AM LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via
>>> bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good Afternoon,
>>>>
>>>> It is obvious that something needs to be done to curtail the current
>>>> cost of mining in kWh per block. I understand proposals are rejected
>>>> because it is considered censorship and Bitcoin has a consensus to allow
>>>> anyone to mine but, since mining requires specific hardware and energy
>>>> requirements it is already a form of censorship where most on the planet
>>>> except for the top 6% I am guessing here, cannot afford to mine. Without
>>>> affecting the current algorithm, I have previously begun to explore the
>>>> process by which mining can be turned into a lottery with only authorized
>>>> payto addresses able to mine valid blocks, since transaction fees and block
>>>> rewards exist to pay the miner. It would be better even if the algorithms
>>>> are improved if there are some ways that only a subset of miners can
>>>> produce valid blocks for any given period, say for 12 months with four
>>>> groups starting three months apart to transition, and maybe limit mining to
>>>> 50 people per continent to produce valid blocks at any one time. Possibly
>>>> this requires a consortium to oversee the lottery but it is something
>>>> Bitcoin can handle themselves, and would do better to handle than to wait
>>>> for government intervention as we have seen previously in China where power
>>>> was too cheap Bitcoin was banned entirely.
>>>>
>>>> KING JAMES HRMH
>>>> Great British Empire
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> The Australian
>>>> LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH)
>>>> of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire
>>>> MR. Damian A. James Williamson
>>>> Wills
>>>>
>>>> et al.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Willtech
>>>> www.willtech.com.au
>>>> www.go-overt.com
>>>> and other projects
>>>>
>>>> earn.com/willtech
>>>> linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> m. 0487135719
>>>> f. +61261470192
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this
>>>> email if misdelivered.
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org> on
>>>> behalf of Lonero Foundation via bitcoin-dev <
>>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, 6 March 2021 3:16 AM
>>>> *To:* Devrandom <c1.devrandom@niftybox.net>
>>>> *Cc:* Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <
>>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST
>>>> Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining
>>>>
>>>> Also in regards to my other email, I forgot to iterate that my
>>>> cryptography proposal helps behind the efficiency category but also tackles
>>>> problems such as NP-Completeness or Halting which is something the BTC
>>>> network could be vulnerable to in the future. For sake of simplicity, I do
>>>> want to do this BIP because it tackles lots of the issues in regards to
>>>> this manner and can provide useful insight to the community. If things such
>>>> as bigger block height have been proposed as hard forks, I feel at the very
>>>> least an upgrade regarding the hashing algorithm and cryptography does at
>>>> least warrant some discussion. Anyways I hope I can send you my BIP, just
>>>> let me know on the preferred format?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards, Andrew
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:12 AM Lonero Foundation <
>>>> loneroassociation@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi, this isn't about the energy efficient argument in regards to
>>>> renewables or mining devices but a better cryptography layer to get the
>>>> most out of your hashing for validation. I do understand the arbitrariness
>>>> of it, but do want to still propose a document. Do I use the Media Wiki
>>>> format on GitHub and just attach it as my proposal?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards, Andrew
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:07 AM Devrandom <c1.devrandom@niftybox.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Ryan and Andrew,
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:42 AM Ryan Grant via bitcoin-dev <
>>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/
>>>>     "Nothing is Cheaper than Proof of Work"
>>>>     on | 04 Aug 2015
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just to belabor this a bit, the paper demonstrates that the mining
>>>> market will tend to expend resources equivalent to miner reward.  It does
>>>> not prove that mining work has to expend *energy* as a primary cost.
>>>>
>>>> Some might argue that energy expenditure has negative externalities and
>>>> that we should move to other resources.  I would argue that the negative
>>>> externalities will go away soon because of the move to renewables, so the
>>>> point is likely moot.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>>>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>>>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>>>>
>>>

--0000000000004ddf5a05bd8a6ea3
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">Actually disregard my last email, I realize you were repl=
ying to somebody else instead of me. Please for proposals not related to my=
 BIP, such as a form of &quot;luck chance lottery&quot;, post in a differen=
t discussion thread as to not draw confusion.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto">Best regards, Andrew</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 10:51 PM Lo=
nero Foundation &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loneroassociation@gmail.com">loneroas=
sociation@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=
<div dir=3D"auto">I also want to emphasize that Bitcoin&#39;s energy consum=
ption is growing at an exponential rate because of complexity. That in itse=
lf is a good thing security-wise. However, there are limitations to the cry=
ptography it is using and the efficiency it is going about mining the way i=
t is currently done.=C2=A0<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Bit=
coin can have this massive carbon footprint all become meaningless if there=
 is better math. So far we already outpaced many of the the more traditiona=
l forms of cryptographic protocols Bitcoin is currently using, including bo=
th for its mining and key validation. The hardware specificness is also too=
 limited.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">My proposal do=
esn&#39;t redesign the way Bitcoin is structured or its system, rather it f=
ocuses on improvement or replacing what is outdated, and making it more res=
istant to centralization, forced monopolization or an attack.</div></div><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, =
Mar 14, 2021, 10:32 PM Lonero Foundation &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:loneroassoci=
ation@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"=
>loneroassociation@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Hi, just to clarify this isn&#39;t a trade-off o=
n security. Infact, my proposal actually increases the level of security th=
at Bitcoin currently has. There is both an efficiency and cryptography aspe=
ct to this proposal. I talked about the higher levels of security a bit in =
my BIP, and have talked to a few about energy consumption.=C2=A0<div dir=3D=
"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Outside of consumption of energy however=
, is the fact that BTC can be more adaptable towards a major range of hardw=
are without disenfranchising others or other major trade-offs. There is no =
need for BTC to specifically be tailored towards ASICs if the same level of=
 proof of work can be done from other hardware sources at similar costs. Th=
e technology and level of cryptography between now and when Satoshi started=
 BTC development 14 years ago is also fastly different. BTC went from you c=
an mine lots of Bitcoin by literally downloading the whitepaper, to USB min=
ers, to ASICs to now whole entire mining centers.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"au=
to"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">This is because of complexity, but that com=
plexity in the near future can be entirely meaningless if it is vulnerable =
to some of the things many cryptography experts are worried about. Keep in =
mind this is in draft mode, but over time as further implementation is done=
, alot of the community including yourself might start being impressed by t=
he more and more tangible results.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"a=
uto">Best regards, Andrew</div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><=
div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 10:02 PM Eric Ma=
rtindale &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eric@ericmartindale.com" rel=3D"noreferrer n=
oreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">eric@ericmartindale.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Bit=
coin&#39;s security is derived from the energy consumption of mining, so re=
ducing the overall expenditure would be an objective decrease in resilience=
.=C2=A0 As a miner, your efficiency at converting energy into hashpower is =
the driving factor in your profitability, so this and any other future atte=
mpts to decrease the cost of attacking Bitcoin receives a hard NACK from me=
.<br><br>If you&#39;re concerned about missing out on the subsidy=C2=A0or f=
ee revenue, grab any number of the sub-500mSAT USB miners and get access to=
 cheap power.<br><br>Sincerely,<br><br clear=3D"all"><div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Hel=
vetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:19.5px">Eric Martindale,=
 relentless maker.</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:&quot=
;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height=
:19.5px">Founder &amp; CEO, <a href=3D"https://fabric.fm" rel=3D"noreferrer=
 noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">Fabric, Inc=
.</a></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:&quot;Helvetica Ne=
ue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:19.5px">+1 (=
919) 374-2020</div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 14, 2021=
 at 9:41 AM LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer n=
oreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxf=
oundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi=
ng-left:1ex">




<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color=
:rgb(0,0,0)">
</div>
<span style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal=
;text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Good Afternoon,</span>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
It is obvious that something needs to be done to curtail the current cost o=
f mining in kWh per block. I understand proposals are rejected because it i=
s considered censorship and Bitcoin has a consensus to allow anyone to mine=
 but, since mining requires specific
 hardware and energy requirements it is already a form of censorship where =
most on the planet except for the top 6% I am guessing here, cannot afford =
to mine. Without affecting the current algorithm, I have previously begun t=
o explore the process by which mining
 can be turned into a lottery with only authorized payto addresses able to =
mine valid blocks, since transaction fees and block rewards exist to pay th=
e miner. It would be better even if the algorithms are improved if there ar=
e some ways that only a subset of
 miners can produce valid blocks for any given period, say for 12 months wi=
th four groups starting three months apart to transition, and maybe limit m=
ining to 50 people per continent to produce valid blocks at any one time. P=
ossibly this requires a consortium
 to oversee the lottery but it is something Bitcoin can handle themselves, =
and would do better to handle than to wait for government intervention as w=
e have seen previously in China where power was too cheap Bitcoin was banne=
d entirely.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
KING JAMES HRMH</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Great British Empire</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Regards,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
The Australian</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (&amp; HMRH)</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
of Hougun Manor &amp; Glencoe &amp; British Empire</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
MR. Damian A. James Williamson</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Wills</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
et al.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Willtech</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<a href=3D"http://www.willtech.com.au" style=3D"color:rgb(27,106,203)" rel=
=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blan=
k">www.willtech.com.au</a></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<a href=3D"http://www.go-overt.com" style=3D"color:rgb(27,106,203)" rel=3D"=
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">w=
ww.go-overt.com</a></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
and other projects</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
=C2=A0</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<a href=3D"http://earn.com/willtech" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferre=
r noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">earn.com/willtech</a></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<a href=3D"http://linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson" rel=3D"noreferrer noref=
errer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">linkedin.com/in/d=
amianwilliamson</a></div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
m. 0487135719</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
f. +61261470192</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal;=
text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<span style=3D"font-family:Cantarell;font-size:14.6667px;font-weight:normal=
;text-align:left;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">This email does not con=
stitute a general advice.
 Please disregard this email if misdelivered.</span>
<div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id=3D"m_3853911642162521674m_6630688057299329463m_-6828153514463161395=
m_7525661998923712526m_-1266539831211111536gmail-m_-5101036930417261306divR=
plyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font style=3D"font-size:11pt" face=3D"Calibri, sans=
-serif" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bi=
tcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer n=
oreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev-bounces@list=
s.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Lonero Foundation via bitcoin-de=
v &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D"noref=
errer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoi=
n-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, 6 March 2021 3:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Devrandom &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:c1.devrandom@niftybox.net" rel=
=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blan=
k">c1.devrandom@niftybox.net</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Bitcoin Protocol Discussion &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@li=
sts.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer=
 noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt=
;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bitcoin-dev] BIP Proposal: Consensus (hard fork) PoST =
Datastore for Energy Efficient Mining</font>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Also in regards to my other email, I forgot to iterate th=
at my cryptography proposal helps behind the efficiency category but also t=
ackles problems such as NP-Completeness or Halting which is something the B=
TC network could be vulnerable to
 in the future. For sake of simplicity, I do want to do this BIP because it=
 tackles lots of the issues in regards to this manner and can provide usefu=
l insight to the community. If things such as bigger block height have been=
 proposed as hard forks, I feel
 at the very least an upgrade regarding the hashing algorithm and cryptogra=
phy does at least warrant some discussion. Anyways I hope I can send you my=
 BIP, just let me know on the preferred format?
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Best regards, Andrew</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:12 AM Lonero Foundation &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:loneroassociation@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noref=
errer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">loneroassociation@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"auto">Hi, this isn&#39;t about the energy efficient argument in=
 regards to renewables or mining devices but a better cryptography layer to=
 get the most out of your hashing for validation. I do understand the arbit=
rariness of it, but do want to still propose
 a document. Do I use the Media Wiki format on GitHub and just attach it as=
 my proposal?
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Best regards, Andrew</div>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Mar 5, 2021, 10:07 AM Devrandom &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:c1.devrandom@niftybox.net" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer nore=
ferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">c1.devrandom@niftybox.net</=
a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Hi Ryan and Andrew,<br>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 5:42 AM Ryan Grant via bitcoin-dev =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D"norefer=
rer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
=C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer n=
oreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/</a><br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &quot;Nothing is Cheaper than Proof of Work&quot;<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 on | 04 Aug 2015<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just to belabor this a bit, the paper demonstrates that the mining mar=
ket will tend to expend resources equivalent to miner reward.=C2=A0 It does=
 not prove that mining work has to expend *energy* as a primary cost.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Some might argue that energy expenditure has negative externalities an=
d that we should move to other resources.=C2=A0 I would argue that the nega=
tive externalities will go away soon because of the move to renewables, so =
the point is likely moot.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" rel=3D"noreferrer =
noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@=
lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin=
-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

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