1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
|
Return-Path: <rgrant@rgrant.org>
Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136])
by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFFF5C002D
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:49:34 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E56E605D6
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:47:22 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org 0E56E605D6
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5
tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001,
RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001]
autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id zUXIXGgSeOKs
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:47:21 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp3.osuosl.org DADB4605B2
Received: from mail-vk1-f180.google.com (mail-vk1-f180.google.com
[209.85.221.180])
by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DADB4605B2
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:47:20 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-vk1-f180.google.com with SMTP id s200so925365vkb.8
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:47:20 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20210112;
h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date
:message-id:subject:to:cc;
bh=9CJAYNrNPzC0rb6lGgqWNYiNX6xjEW8BHxoOPhebtTQ=;
b=U0pYEm/3zxXJ31sZAXPgnSMsFztVWCtt72gBDnD0/aIX75sIQYhoIh3CFnpubA7IUK
A/qi9kLjI7K2I0fNAQD6a8LG1K1VTFmfSRUbyc7+vcda+pqKU5NW7A21AfLvoLrlhtE+
wAFVyeUmxy1wcvcUeZBUotz1CU0dFC+UNJyoFsrE/n8K0QR/d59KruAzhdeNLa994rS5
xfqcyPBg12GwE6+BXqH2xCExzEVQlYiXPZdoIuZwJmWlHHSmLapXH9pGwII0aZv8onqW
sIMhnmh0iNAwdCUS4sbARptTxqPuS/uviUGSIczneU/YvH4EJbLDdLUjZDTqFLQQIq1O
ZWfw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora+oqLc3ZHqR2YKlxsT6yPXlq+luGSlOI8FUAp58G0aXbbhS+vUY
P3nM30yaDHxefpkGPw0dhswqVMHNj5odviF8A9/DVno+CSI4twNz
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1stPgfRe/zr5Qk45rn1OUlwpkyrHN7WUJ5xxgSu7GmsLvhXOIbQUbPmMUOzbQDwAY9Ml7qDa0swE1bt3UxV/PI=
X-Received: by 2002:a1f:a4c1:0:b0:36c:b0de:1c73 with SMTP id
n184-20020a1fa4c1000000b0036cb0de1c73mr9501890vke.24.1657648039528; Tue, 12
Jul 2022 10:47:19 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <fJguYsLelZiEN8g25KZONgNp8qHvY3UkkEE7uUtI6O7MFgaNcKBVc5l5gCUlFSxQLE5Hzu3QobS8ZE4pzmTVqSG8wU5Y0Q3jHL3X6Wsye4c=@pointbiz.com>
<CAJowKgKM7B6UY-dNNTym7GAPS_dZ0dnMUPFJe-bSssKqt=zL5Q@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAJowKgKM7B6UY-dNNTym7GAPS_dZ0dnMUPFJe-bSssKqt=zL5Q@mail.gmail.com>
From: Ryan Grant <bitcoin-dev@rgrant.org>
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:46:43 +0000
Message-ID: <CAMnpzfr1dB1+L92aNG84cHA5=sQR815LyhHytpPC+Bq7fGvKuw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Cc: Peter <dizzle@pointbiz.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Security problems with relying on transaction
fees for security
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 17:49:35 -0000
BIP119, OP_CTV, allows value to be assigned in a predetermined tree
of payments that confirms with a single output.
This allows batched transactions in the predetermined tree (e.g.
withdrawals from a centralized exchange) to be anchored in a way that
disallows double-spending of the inputs, yet allows the recipients to
smooth out mining fees for their withdrawal outputs, at their leisure.
It's a perfect design for a world where there are always more
transactions to be made than block space allows, yet only some of them
are urgent. As it applies to concerns mentioned in this thread, it
can be used to shift transaction fees to later blocks. Whenever
smoothing transaction fees would be a nice-to-have, this is one way to
have it.
https://utxos.org/uses/scaling/
https://utxos.org/analysis/bip_simulation/
On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 9:49 AM Peter <dizzle@pointbiz.com> wrote:
> With 3000 Lightning open/ close tx per block and 6 billion adults
> it's 38 years of backlog to onboard the entire adult
> population. That's not including corporations.
Separately, OP_CTV also allows slightly different payment channels
from the existing Lightning Network, that allow non-interactive
batched opens. Using this technique, onboarding 6 billion adults to
payment channels would be limited only by their willingness to
participate.
https://utxos.org/uses/non-interactive-channels/
|
