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From: R E Broadley <rebroad+linuxfoundation.org@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 9 May 2021 12:30:53 +0100
Message-ID: <CAFBxzAAZjRtraHOmEKsd6K2V6pfYa2mHHRwCBDD3GXvtWmd_ug@mail.gmail.com>
To: Eric Martindale <eric@ericmartindale.com>,
Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Opinion on proof of stake in future
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According to this paper:
https://www.cs.umd.edu/projects/coinscope/coinscope.pdf
PoW is also only resilient to 1/3rd of the network.
On Sat, 8 May 2021 at 14:46, Eric Martindale via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> Mr. Singh,
>
> Proof of Stake is only resilient to =E2=85=93 of the network demonstratin=
g a
Byzantine Fault, whilst Proof of Work is resilient up to the =C2=BD thresho=
ld.
You can explore prior research here:
https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf
>
> Independent of the security thresholds, Proof of Stake requires other
trade-offs which are incompatible with Bitcoin's objective (to be a
trustless digital cash) =E2=80=94 specifically the famous "security vs. liv=
eness"
guarantee. Digital cash is not useful if it must be globally halted to
ensure its security, and Proof of Work squarely addresses this concern.
>
> Above and beyond any security consideration, Proof of Stake incentivizes
the accumulation of wealth within a small set of actors, which is
undesirable for the long-term health of any such network. If we are to
free humanity from the tyranny of the State, we must do so by protecting
the rights of every individual to hold and preserve their own value,
without trusting any third party. Entrusting the health of the network to
the "economic elite" is the paramount evil with respect to Bitcoin's
objectives, nevermind that Proof of Work relies on energy expenditure to
provide its security.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Eric Martindale, relentless maker.
> Founder & CEO, Fabric, Inc.
> +1 (919) 374-2020
>
>
> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 6:50 PM SatoshiSingh via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello list,
>>
>> I am a lurker here and like many of you I worry about the energy usage
of bitcoin mining. I understand a lot mining happens with renewable
resources but the impact is still high.
>>
>> I want to get your opinion on implementing proof of stake for bitcoin
mining in future. For now, proof of stake is still untested and not battle
tested like proof of work. Though someday it will be.
>>
>> In the following years we'll be seeing proof of stake being implemented.
Smaller networks can test PoS which is a luxury bitcoin can't afford.
Here's how I see this the possibilities:
>>
>> 1 - Proof of stake isn't a good enough security mechanism
>> 2 - Proof of state is a good security mechanism and works as intended
>>
>> IF PoS turns out to be good after battle testing, would you consider
implementing it for Bitcoin? I understand this would invoke a lot of
controversies and a hard fork that no one likes. But its important enough
to consider a hard fork. What are your opinions provided PoS does work?
>>
>> Love from India.
>> _______________________________________________
>> bitcoin-dev mailing list
>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
--0000000000003fa74a05c1e3ff09
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<div dir=3D"ltr">According to this paper: <a href=3D"https://www.cs.umd.edu=
/projects/coinscope/coinscope.pdf">https://www.cs.umd.edu/projects/coinscop=
e/coinscope.pdf</a><br><br>PoW is also only resilient to 1/3rd of the netwo=
rk.<br><br>On Sat, 8 May 2021 at 14:46, Eric Martindale via bitcoin-dev <=
;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists=
.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<br>><br>> Mr. Singh,<br>><br>&=
gt; Proof of Stake is only resilient to =E2=85=93 of the network demonstrat=
ing a Byzantine Fault, whilst Proof of Work is resilient up to the =C2=BD t=
hreshold.=C2=A0 You can explore prior research here: <a href=3D"https://dow=
nload.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf">https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitco=
in/pos.pdf</a><br>><br>> Independent of the security thresholds, Proo=
f of Stake requires other trade-offs which are incompatible with Bitcoin=
9;s objective (to be a trustless digital cash) =E2=80=94 specifically the f=
amous "security vs. liveness" guarantee.=C2=A0 Digital cash is no=
t useful if it must be globally halted to ensure its security, and Proof of=
Work squarely addresses this concern.<br>><br>> Above and beyond any=
security consideration, Proof of Stake incentivizes the accumulation of we=
alth within a small set of actors, which is undesirable for the long-term h=
ealth of any such network.=C2=A0 If we are to free humanity from the tyrann=
y of the State, we must do so by protecting the rights of every individual =
to hold and preserve their own value, without trusting any third party.=C2=
=A0 Entrusting the health of the network to the "economic elite" =
is the paramount evil with respect to Bitcoin's objectives, nevermind t=
hat Proof of Work relies on energy expenditure to provide its security.<br>=
><br>> Sincerely,<br>><br>> Eric Martindale, relentless maker.<=
br>> Founder & CEO, Fabric, Inc.<br>> +1 (919) 374-2020<br>><b=
r>><br>> On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 6:50 PM SatoshiSingh via bitcoin-dev =
<<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@li=
sts.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<br>>><br>>> Hello list,<=
br>>><br>>> I am a lurker here and like many of you I worry abo=
ut the energy usage of bitcoin mining. I understand a lot mining happens wi=
th renewable resources but the impact is still high.<br>>><br>>>=
; I want to get your opinion on implementing proof of stake for bitcoin min=
ing in future. For now, proof of stake is still untested and not battle tes=
ted like proof of work. Though someday it will be.<br>>><br>>> =
In the following years we'll be seeing proof of stake being implemented=
. Smaller networks can test PoS which is a luxury bitcoin can't afford.=
Here's how I see this the possibilities:<br>>><br>>> 1 - P=
roof of stake isn't a good enough security mechanism<br>>> 2 - Pr=
oof of state is a good security mechanism and works as intended<br>>>=
<br>>> IF PoS turns out to be good after battle testing, would you co=
nsider implementing it for Bitcoin? I understand this would invoke a lot of=
controversies and a hard fork that no one likes. But its important enough =
to consider a hard fork. What are your opinions provided PoS does work?<br>=
>><br>>> Love from India.<br>>> _________________________=
______________________<br>>> bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>>> <a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.lin=
uxfoundation.org</a><br>>> <a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.o=
rg/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/=
listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>><br>> __________________________________=
_____________<br>> bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>> <a href=3D"mailto:bi=
tcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org<=
/a><br>> <a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/b=
itcoin-dev">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev<=
/a></div>
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