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From: "Jim Rogers" <jim.rogers.907@gmail.com>
To: "'Jameson Lopp'" <jameson.lopp@gmail.com>,
	"'Bitcoin Protocol Discussion'" <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:18:32 -0900
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Total fees have almost crossed the block reward
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It seems that the exchanges are doing everything that they can to slow =
things. Not only have the major exchanges not implemented segwit yet, =
but a bigger, less addressed issue is that they have start applying =
transfer limits on crypto as well as cash. They do not respond for =
months to requests to upgrade limits, and this results in many =
transactions instead of one to transfer crypto to cold storage devices.=20

=20

These issues may self-resolve over time, since I think they are all =
impacted by KYC and the explosive growth.=20

=20

=20

From: bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
[mailto:bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org] On Behalf Of =
Jameson Lopp via bitcoin-dev
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 1:03 PM
To: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>; Bitcoin Protocol =
Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Total fees have almost crossed the block =
reward

=20

I'd hope that the incentives are in place to encourage high volume =
senders to be more efficient in their use of block space by batching =
transactions and implementing SegWit, though this may not be the case =
for providers that pass transaction fees along to their users.

=20

We've been trying to be more proactive about outreach regarding =
efficient use of block space to our own customers at BitGo - when we =
break down the cost savings of implementing a new technique, it =
generally helps to hasten their adoption. I suspect that in many cases =
this is an issue of education - we should be more proactive in calling =
out inefficient uses of block space.

=20

Good resources to bookmark and share:

=20

https://bitcointechtalk.com/saving-up-to-80-on-bitcoin-transaction-fees-b=
y-batching-payments-4147ab7009fb

=20

https://blog.zebpay.com/how-zebpay-reduced-bitcoin-transaction-fees-a9e24=
c788598

=20

- Jameson

=20

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Melvin Carvalho via bitcoin-dev =
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> > wrote:

I asked adam back at hcpp how the block chain would be secured in the =
long term, once the reward goes away.  The base idea has always been =
that fees would replace the block reward.

At that time fees were approximately 10% of the block reward, but have =
now reached 45%, with 50% potentially being crossed soon

https://fork.lol/reward/feepct

While this bodes well for the long term security of the coin, I think =
there is some legitimate concern that the fee per tx is prohibitive for =
some use cases, at this point in the adoption curve.

Observations of segwit adoption show around 10% at this point

http://segwit.party/charts/

Watching the mempool shows that the congestion is at a peak, though it's =
quite possible this will come down over the long weekend.  I wonder if =
this is of concern to some.

https://dedi.jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/more/#24h

I thought these data points may be of interest and are mainly FYI.  =
Though if further discussion is deemed appropriate, it would be =
interesting to hear thoughts.


_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>=20
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev

=20


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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>It seems =
that the exchanges are doing everything that they can to slow things. =
Not only have the major exchanges not implemented segwit yet, but a =
bigger, less addressed issue is that they have start applying transfer =
limits on crypto as well as cash. They do not respond for months to =
requests to upgrade limits, and this results in many transactions =
instead of one to transfer crypto to cold storage devices. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>These issues may self-resolve over time, since I think =
they are all impacted by KYC and the explosive growth. <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> =
bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
[mailto:bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Jameson Lopp via bitcoin-dev<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, December 21, =
2017 1:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> Melvin Carvalho =
&lt;melvincarvalho@gmail.com&gt;; Bitcoin Protocol Discussion =
&lt;bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[bitcoin-dev] Total fees have almost crossed the block =
reward<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>I'd hope that the incentives are in place to encourage =
high volume senders to be more efficient in their use of block space by =
batching transactions and implementing SegWit, though this may not be =
the case for providers that pass transaction fees along to their =
users.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>We've been trying to be more proactive about outreach =
regarding efficient use of block space to our own customers at BitGo - =
when we break down the cost savings of implementing a new technique, it =
generally helps to hasten their adoption. I suspect that in many cases =
this is an issue of education - we should be more proactive in calling =
out inefficient uses of block space.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Good resources to bookmark and =
share:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://bitcointechtalk.com/saving-up-to-80-on-bitcoin-transactio=
n-fees-by-batching-payments-4147ab7009fb">https://bitcointechtalk.com/sav=
ing-up-to-80-on-bitcoin-transaction-fees-by-batching-payments-4147ab7009f=
b</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><a =
href=3D"https://blog.zebpay.com/how-zebpay-reduced-bitcoin-transaction-fe=
es-a9e24c788598">https://blog.zebpay.com/how-zebpay-reduced-bitcoin-trans=
action-fees-a9e24c788598</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>- =
Jameson<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Thu, =
Dec 21, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Melvin Carvalho via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" =
target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><div><div><div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I asked adam back at =
hcpp how the block chain would be secured in the long term, once the =
reward goes away.&nbsp; The base idea has always been that fees would =
replace the block reward.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>At that time fees were approximately 10% =
of the block reward, but have now reached 45%, with 50% potentially =
being crossed soon<br><br><a href=3D"https://fork.lol/reward/feepct" =
target=3D"_blank">https://fork.lol/reward/feepct</a><o:p></o:p></p></div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>While this bodes =
well for the long term security of the coin, I think there is some =
legitimate concern that the fee per tx is prohibitive for some use =
cases, at this point in the adoption curve.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Observations of segwit =
adoption show around 10% at this point<br><br><a =
href=3D"http://segwit.party/charts/" =
target=3D"_blank">http://segwit.party/charts/</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Watching the mempool =
shows that the congestion is at a peak, though it's quite possible this =
will come down over the long weekend.&nbsp; I wonder if this is of =
concern to some.<br><br><a =
href=3D"https://dedi.jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/more/#24h" =
target=3D"_blank">https://dedi.jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/more/#24h</a><o:p=
></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>I thought these data points may be =
of interest and are mainly FYI.&nbsp; Though if further discussion is =
deemed appropriate, it would be interesting to hear =
thoughts.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>______________________________________=
_________<br>bitcoin-dev mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.l=
inuxfoundation.org</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitc=
oin-dev</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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