1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
|
Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191]
helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
by sfs-ml-4.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
(envelope-from <tamas@bitsofproof.com>) id 1WXQwP-0003FV-46
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Tue, 08 Apr 2014 07:59:33 +0000
X-ACL-Warn:
Received: from wp059.webpack.hosteurope.de ([80.237.132.66])
by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256)
(Exim 4.76) id 1WXQwN-0007CL-6u
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Tue, 08 Apr 2014 07:59:33 +0000
Received: from [37.143.74.116] (helo=[192.168.2.2]); authenticated
by wp059.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM with esmtpsa
(TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16)
id 1WXQwG-0006HR-QC; Tue, 08 Apr 2014 09:59:24 +0200
Content-Type: multipart/signed;
boundary="Apple-Mail=_EFED67E5-3988-47B9-B415-774302E61D9A";
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.2 \(1874\))
From: Tamas Blummer <tamas@bitsofproof.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAJHLa0MOB2=1JNfXCb-DY24ssTi7hVFi6H7JDaeVp5oOUUMy=A@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 09:59:24 +0200
Message-Id: <19177DCF-B159-492E-921D-E26226AFB5EF@bitsofproof.com>
References: <CANEZrP2rgiQHpekEpFviJ22QsiV+s-F2pqosaZOA5WrRtJx5pg@mail.gmail.com>
<5342C833.5030906@gmail.com>
<CAAS2fgTqBfEPXh2dfcL_ke6c0wfXw4qUM1rAYMkAHcAM6mYH+g@mail.gmail.com>
<6D430188-CE00-44B1-BD8C-B623CF04D466@icloudtools.net>
<CANEZrP1-9LpPw4WuY8bfsEG0OLoDECXTfQCoZsZ4tmOn2H7Omw@mail.gmail.com>
<6D6E55CE-2F04-4C34-BEE6-98AEF1478346@bitsofproof.com>
<CAAS2fgQaJ6P4Aj2A5Zox+CiGQK6jHvF1CkLH1R6xbadYhUXO2g@mail.gmail.com>
<CAJHLa0MOB2=1JNfXCb-DY24ssTi7hVFi6H7JDaeVp5oOUUMy=A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1874)
X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de; tamas@bitsofproof.com; 1396943971;
0e7beefc;
X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
X-Headers-End: 1WXQwN-0007CL-6u
Cc: Bitcoin Development <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Why are we bleeding nodes?
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2014 07:59:33 -0000
--Apple-Mail=_EFED67E5-3988-47B9-B415-774302E61D9A
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="Apple-Mail=_D8B07DAA-2C9C-4094-8BE4-FFDFFF53331E"
--Apple-Mail=_D8B07DAA-2C9C-4094-8BE4-FFDFFF53331E
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=windows-1252
Specialization of nodes is ongoing most prominent with SPV wallets and =
mining.
There is a need I see on my own business for software that is able to =
serve multiple wallets, and is multi tiered,
so the world facing P2P node can be in a DMZ. I target them with a =
hybrid model that is SPV plus mempool transaction validation=20
against UTXO and use =91reference=92 implementations as border router. =
I think that this setup will be common for enterprises=20
and hence push for a stripped down =91reference=92 border router without =
wallet, payment protocol, GUI, RPC calls here.=20
That border router could also serve as archive node evtl. also offering =
blocks at bulk e.g. through http.=20
Enterprises that run a multi tiered environment have the bandwith to =
serve as archives.
Tamas Blummer
http://bitsofproof.com
On 08.04.2014, at 05:44, Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay.com> wrote:
> Being Mr. Torrent, I've held open the "80% serious" suggestion to
> simply refuse to serve blocks older than X (3 months?).
>=20
> That forces download by other means (presumably torrent).
>=20
> I do not feel it is productive for any nodes on the network to waste
> time/bandwidth/etc. serving static, ancient data. There remain, of
> course, issues of older nodes and "getting the word out" that prevents
> this switch from being flipped on tomorrow.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 11:35 AM, Tamas Blummer =
<tamas@bitsofproof.com> wrote:
>>> BTW, did we already agree on the service bits for an archive node?
>>=20
>> I'm still very concerned that a binary archive bit will cause extreme
>> load hot-spotting and the kind of binary "Use lots of resources YES =
or
>> NO" I think we're currently suffering some from, but at that point
>> enshrined in the protocol.
>>=20
>> It would be much better to extend the addr messages so that nodes can
>> indicate a range or two of blocks that they're serving, so that all
>> nodes can contribute fractionally according to their means. E.g. if
>> you want to offer up 8 GB of distributed storage and contribute to =
the
>> availability of the blockchain, without having to swollow the whole
>> 20, 30, 40 ... gigabyte pill.
>>=20
>> Already we need that kind of distributed storage for the most recent
>> blocks to prevent extreme bandwidth load on archives, so extending it
>> to arbitrary ranges is only more complicated because there is
>> currently no room to signal it.
>>=20
>> =
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
>> Put Bad Developers to Shame
>> Dominate Development with Jenkins Continuous Integration
>> Continuously Automate Build, Test & Deployment
>> Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the cloud.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> Jeff Garzik
> Bitcoin core developer and open source evangelist
> BitPay, Inc. https://bitpay.com/
>=20
--Apple-Mail=_D8B07DAA-2C9C-4094-8BE4-FFDFFF53331E
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=windows-1252
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dwindows-1252"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space;"><div>Specialization of nodes is ongoing most =
prominent with SPV wallets and mining.</div><div><br></div><div>There is =
a need I see on my own business for software that is able to serve =
multiple wallets, and is multi tiered,</div><div>so the world facing P2P =
node can be in a DMZ. I target them with a hybrid model that is SPV plus =
mempool transaction validation </div><div>against UTXO and use =
=91reference=92 implementations as border router. I think that =
this setup will be common for enterprises </div><div>and hence push =
for a stripped down =91reference=92 border router without wallet, =
payment protocol, GUI, RPC calls =
here. </div><div><br></div><div>That border router could also serve =
as archive node evtl. also offering blocks at bulk e.g. through =
http. </div><div>Enterprises that run a multi tiered environment =
have the bandwith to serve as archives.</div><div><br></div><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true"><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; float: none; =
display: inline !important;">Tamas Blummer</span><br style=3D"color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span =
style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: =
2; float: none; display: inline !important;"><a =
href=3D"http://bitsofproof.com">http://bitsofproof.com</a></span>
</span></div>
<br><div><div>On 08.04.2014, at 05:44, Jeff Garzik <<a =
href=3D"mailto:jgarzik@bitpay.com">jgarzik@bitpay.com</a>> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">Being Mr. Torrent, I've held open the "80% serious" =
suggestion to<br>simply refuse to serve blocks older than X (3 =
months?).<br><br>That forces download by other means (presumably =
torrent).<br><br>I do not feel it is productive for any nodes on the =
network to waste<br>time/bandwidth/etc. serving static, ancient data. =
There remain, of<br>course, issues of older nodes and "getting the =
word out" that prevents<br>this switch from being flipped on =
tomorrow.<br><br><br><br>On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Gregory Maxwell =
<<a href=3D"mailto:gmaxwell@gmail.com">gmaxwell@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 11:35 AM, =
Tamas Blummer <<a =
href=3D"mailto:tamas@bitsofproof.com">tamas@bitsofproof.com</a>> =
wrote:<br><blockquote type=3D"cite">BTW, did we already agree on the =
service bits for an archive node?<br></blockquote><br>I'm still very =
concerned that a binary archive bit will cause extreme<br>load =
hot-spotting and the kind of binary "Use lots of resources YES or<br>NO" =
I think we're currently suffering some from, but at that =
point<br>enshrined in the protocol.<br><br>It would be much better to =
extend the addr messages so that nodes can<br>indicate a range or two of =
blocks that they're serving, so that all<br>nodes can contribute =
fractionally according to their means. E.g. if<br>you want to offer up 8 =
GB of distributed storage and contribute to the<br>availability of the =
blockchain, without having to swollow the whole<br>20, 30, 40 ... =
gigabyte pill.<br><br>Already we need that kind of distributed storage =
for the most recent<br>blocks to prevent extreme bandwidth load on =
archives, so extending it<br>to arbitrary ranges is only more =
complicated because there is<br>currently no room to signal =
it.<br><br>---------------------------------------------------------------=
---------------<br>Put Bad Developers to Shame<br>Dominate Development =
with Jenkins Continuous Integration<br>Continuously Automate Build, Test =
& Deployment<br>Start a new project now. Try Jenkins in the =
cloud.<br><a =
href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Cloudbees">http://p.sf.net/sfu/13600_Clo=
udbees</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>Bitcoin-d=
evelopment mailing =
list<br>Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net<br>https://lists.sourcef=
orge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development<br></blockquote><br><br><br>--=
<br>Jeff Garzik<br>Bitcoin core developer and open source =
evangelist<br>BitPay, Inc. <a =
href=3D"https://bitpay.com/">https://bitpay.com/</a><br><br></blockquote><=
/div><br></body></html>=
--Apple-Mail=_D8B07DAA-2C9C-4094-8BE4-FFDFFF53331E--
--Apple-Mail=_EFED67E5-3988-47B9-B415-774302E61D9A
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename=signature.asc
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature;
name=signature.asc
Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org
iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTQ6xcAAoJEPZykcUXcTkcw5wH/3HLSMUnpJoZd+oh43TBoTz4
NYe3fOgMlrHPn+n2BaeePDklBG4T54OjTteFnNB8Gh02p0xZWwEgrqNctKxdRMtG
Hb4tEXXs5mF1RR8Yv57lYRxnr4TlvQKmgLlrk5IY7J6OiL117NOgQRFwvw1T5CnY
vWJ+C/nqgID0v/vItYALVgfmL4f4J3rEGcGTfymlQDdgvB1+02RhFN7QcjmXimC8
Bqnrsf5/t+/vCk0EG713hATq8l7UY9K/v2OvtD4aH1mNs2cSCKHkmnHaWw1rYkX2
Vjx6adj2k4+pWGjVu/K8/IjZ74CyhOXVKqY6cRwhvXxxowGfZ47pxQHcN30YMDA=
=zX/M
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--Apple-Mail=_EFED67E5-3988-47B9-B415-774302E61D9A--
|
