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From: Tier Nolan <tier.nolan@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 20:12:54 +0100
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--001a113d255c8447d5055021a877
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On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 5:19 PM, Paul Sztorc via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> In the future, when there is no block subsidy, a rich attacker can also do
> that in mainchain Bitcoin.
>
I don't think they are the same.
With Bitcoin, you only get to reverse recent transactions. If you actually
reversed 2-3 weeks of transactions, then the Bitcoin price would fall,
destroying the value of the additional coins you managed to obtain. Even
if their was no price fall, you can only get a fraction of the total.
With BMM, you can "buy" the entire reserve of the sidechain by paying
(timeout) * (average tx fees). If you destroy a side-chain's value, then
that doesn't affect the value of the bitcoins you manage to steal.
The incentive could be eliminated by restricting the amount of coin that
can be transferred from the side chain to the main chain to a fraction of
the transaction fee pay to the bitcoin miners.
If the side chain pays x in fees, then at most x/10 can be transferred from
the side chain to the main chain. This means that someone who pays for
block creation can only get 10% of that value transferred to the main chain.
Main-chain miners could support fraud proofs. A pool could easily run an
archive node for the side chain in a different data center.
This wouldn't harm the performance of their main operations, but would
guarantee that the side chain data is available for side chain validators.
The sidechain to main-chain timeout would be more than enough for fraud
proofs to be constructed.
This means that the miners would need to know what the rules are for the
side chain, so that they can process the fraud proofs. They would also
need to run SPV nodes for the side chain, so they know which sidechain
headers to blacklist.
> In point of fact, the transactions *are* validated...by sidechain full
> nodes, same as Bitcoin proper.
>
>
The big difference is that Bitcoin holds no assets on another chain. A
side-chain's value is directly linked to the fact that it has 100% reserves
on the Bitcoin main chain. That can be targeted for theft.
> Paul
>
>
> Regards,
> ZmnSCPxj
>
>
--001a113d255c8447d5055021a877
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On M=
on, May 22, 2017 at 5:19 PM, Paul Sztorc via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">=
<<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px=
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"aut=
o"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">In the future, when there is no block subsid=
y, a rich attacker can also do that in mainchain Bitcoin.</div></div></bloc=
kquote><div><br></div><div>I don't think they are the same.<br></div><d=
iv><br></div><div><span class=3D"gmail-">With Bitcoin, you only get to reve=
rse recent transactions.=C2=A0 If you actually reversed 2-3 weeks of transa=
ctions, then the Bitcoin price would fall, destroying the value of the addi=
tional coins you managed to obtain.=C2=A0 Even if their was no price fall, =
you can only get a fraction of the total.<br></span></div><div><br>With BMM=
<span class=3D"gmail-">, you can "buy" the entire reserve of the =
sidechain by paying (timeout) * (average tx fees).=C2=A0 If you destroy a s=
ide-chain's value, then that doesn't affect the value of the bitcoi=
ns you manage to steal.<br><br></span></div><div><span class=3D"gmail-">The=
incentive could be eliminated by restricting the amount of coin that can b=
e transferred from the side chain to the main chain to a fraction of the tr=
ansaction fee pay to the bitcoin miners.<br><br></span></div><div><span cla=
ss=3D"gmail-">If the side chain pays x in fees, then at most x/10 can be tr=
ansferred from the side chain to the main chain.=C2=A0 This means that some=
one who pays for block creation can only get 10% of that value transferred =
to the main chain.<br><br></span></div><div><span class=3D"gmail-">Main-cha=
in miners could support fraud proofs.=C2=A0 A pool could easily run an arch=
ive node for the side chain in a different data center.<br><br>This wouldn&=
#39;t harm the performance of their main operations, but would guarantee th=
at the side chain data is available for side chain validators.<br><br></spa=
n></div><div><span class=3D"gmail-">The sidechain to main-chain timeout wou=
ld be more than enough for fraud proofs to be constructed.=C2=A0 <br><br></=
span></div><div><span class=3D"gmail-">This means that the miners would nee=
d to know what the rules are for the side chain, so that they can process t=
he fraud proofs.=C2=A0 They would also need to run SPV nodes for the side c=
hain, so they know which sidechain headers to blacklist.<br><br></span></di=
v><div><span class=3D"gmail-"></span></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);=
padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><br><div dir=3D"auto">In point of fact,=
the transactions *are* validated...by sidechain full nodes, same as Bitcoi=
n proper.</div><span class=3D"gmail-HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div></font></span></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>T=
he big difference is that Bitcoin holds no assets on another chain.=C2=A0 A=
side-chain's value is directly linked to the fact that it has 100% res=
erves on the Bitcoin main chain.=C2=A0 That can be targeted for theft.<br><=
/div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><di=
v dir=3D"auto"><span class=3D"gmail-HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div di=
r=3D"auto"></div><div dir=3D"auto">Paul</div></font></span><div><div class=
=3D"gmail-h5"><div dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail-m_-18861892832726321quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left=
:1ex"><div><br></div><div>Regards,<br></div><div>ZmnSCPxj<br></div></blockq=
uote></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div>
--001a113d255c8447d5055021a877--
|
