1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
|
Received: from sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.193]
helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
(envelope-from <bendavenport@gmail.com>) id 1WOAiw-0001j2-Uc
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Thu, 13 Mar 2014 18:51:22 +0000
Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com
designates 209.85.219.54 as permitted sender)
client-ip=209.85.219.54; envelope-from=bendavenport@gmail.com;
helo=mail-oa0-f54.google.com;
Received: from mail-oa0-f54.google.com ([209.85.219.54])
by sog-mx-3.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
(Exim 4.76) id 1WOAit-0004Z5-LL
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Thu, 13 Mar 2014 18:51:22 +0000
Received: by mail-oa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id n16so1503354oag.41
for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>;
Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:51:14 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.60.132.142 with SMTP id ou14mr2770088oeb.48.1394736674323;
Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:51:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.76.35.102 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:51:14 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CANEZrP1CtsXV7m=qpJ1px1cQw9C7AkDYXe7Op8gQqg2+VK3mYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKaEYhK4oXH3hB7uS3=AEkA6r0VB5OYyTua+LOP18rq+rYajHg@mail.gmail.com>
<52852C2D.9020103@gmail.com> <52853D8A.6010501@monetize.io>
<CAJHLa0M6CkoDbD6FFixf9-mmhug7DvehSWCJ+EHWVxUDuwNiBg@mail.gmail.com>
<EE02A310-8604-4811-B2D0-FC32C72C20F3@grabhive.com>
<CAJHLa0OMcTCgGESi-F4jT2NA3FyCeMYbD_52j47t3keEYBfK8g@mail.gmail.com>
<CA+s+GJBSGPBQWWYR1NYSc2E4Y1BWAn8zf7xsu4wQ1O8cA8OWbw@mail.gmail.com>
<CAJHLa0NEEppHg_Lmi_Oxnz_gPSHZPfQpeg+-8MrvFYDmdM83-g@mail.gmail.com>
<20140313160850.GW3180@nl.grid.coop>
<CAC1+kJOQfhFaMs34STGOeqbmHdv6bVis7o57BcF3=XYudNw_Lg@mail.gmail.com>
<CANEZrP1CtsXV7m=qpJ1px1cQw9C7AkDYXe7Op8gQqg2+VK3mYA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:51:14 -0700
Message-ID: <CALimQCXCjkBc7QbsLgM-q7pth4nhZ8e8m60epgkBhcJUf=kbZg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Ben Davenport <bendavenport@gmail.com>
To: Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b4724a207432b04f48170c5
X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
-1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for
sender-domain
0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider
(bendavenport[at]gmail.com)
-0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record
1.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
-0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from
author's domain
0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature,
not necessarily valid
-0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
X-Headers-End: 1WOAit-0004Z5-LL
Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>,
Wendell <w@grabhive.com>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 18:51:23 -0000
--047d7b4724a207432b04f48170c5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Another vote in support of uBTC. I made my position clear in May of last
year. Since then, Dogecoin has essentially PROVEN the psychological value
of a low-valued large-balance currency.
(From: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220322.msg2334059#msg2334059)
"The whole unit change seems so disruptive and difficult to coordinate now
-- do we really want to have to deal with another one later when there are
way more people to try to coordinate? I really think we should look to the
endgame and figure out where we want to be.
"I'd propose moving to uB (micro-bitcoin = 1e-6) as the standard unit now
and forever. For now, it can be referred to as uB or uBTC, but over time,
once it's ubiquitous, it should just be called a bitcoin. Because the
smallest unit is the satoshi (1e-8), this means uB-denominated prices would
get 2 decimal places maximum, which is the most that any consumer wants to
deal with anyway.
"At the same time, I'd propose inverting the exchange rate, so instead of
quoting uB/USD = .00013, it would be quoted as USD/uB = 7692. This is
exactly the same way Yen are quoted relative to USD (USDJPY = 100.66), and
is also the same way other private virtual currencies such as WoW gold are
quoted."
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:
> You would only need to change it if there was a sub-satoshi hardfork,
>> which doesn't seem necessary anytime soon.
>>
>
> +
>
> We shouldn't make any assumptions about the future price of bitcoin to
>> make the decision.
>>
>
> Hmmm ;) Didn't you just make an assumption about the future price?
>
>
>> This sounds very US-centric to me. Aren't you thinking in usd?
>>
>
> The currencies I'm familiar with are CHF, USD, EUR and GBP, which all have
> roughly similar values. I guess such currencies make up the bulk of the
> Bitcoin userbase at the moment.
>
>
>> "People seem to like mBTC" is just an ad populum fallacy: millions of
>> flies can actually be wrong. Also you haven't showed them micros,
>> maybe they like it too.
>
>
> Saying "it's already popular and would take work to change" is not really
> a fallacy now, is it?
>
> But anyway, this is getting silly. You don't have to convince me. Go visit
> all the services I listed above, plus all the ones I didn't find in my five
> minutes of searching, and convince them they're wrong like the flies and
> switching is the best use of their time :o
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
--047d7b4724a207432b04f48170c5
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">Another vote in support of uBTC. I made my position clear =
in May of last year. Since then, Dogecoin has essentially PROVEN the psycho=
logical value of a low-valued large-balance currency.<div><br></div><div>(F=
rom: <a href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D220322.msg2334059=
#msg2334059">https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D220322.msg2334059#ms=
g2334059</a>)</div>
<div><br></div><div>"The whole unit change seems so disruptive and dif=
ficult to coordinate now -- do we really want to have to deal with another =
one later when there are way more people to try to coordinate? I really thi=
nk we should look to the endgame and figure out where we want to be.<div>
<br></div><div>"I'd propose moving to uB (micro-bitcoin =3D 1e-6) =
as the standard unit now and forever. For now, it can be referred to as uB =
or uBTC, but over time, once it's ubiquitous, it should just be called =
a bitcoin. Because the smallest unit is the satoshi (1e-8), this means uB-d=
enominated prices would get 2 decimal places maximum, which is the most tha=
t any consumer wants to deal with anyway.</div>
<div><br></div><div>"At the same time, I'd propose inverting the e=
xchange rate, so instead of quoting uB/USD =3D .00013, it would be quoted a=
s USD/uB =3D 7692. This is exactly the same way Yen are quoted relative to =
USD (USDJPY =3D 100.66), and is also the same way other private virtual cur=
rencies such as WoW gold are quoted."</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:29 A=
M, Mike Hearn <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net" targ=
et=3D"_blank">mike@plan99.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>You would only need to change it if there was a sub-satoshi hardfork, =
which doesn't seem necessary anytime soon.</div>
</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div class=3D""><div>+</div><div><br></di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:=
1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>We shouldn't make any assumptions about the future price of bitcoi=
n to make the decision.</div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Hmmm ;)=
Didn't you just make an assumption about the future price?</div><div c=
lass=3D"">
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>This sounds very US-centr=
ic to me. Aren't you thinking in usd?<br></div></blockquote><div>
<br></div></div><div>The currencies I'm familiar with are CHF, USD, EUR=
and GBP, which all have roughly similar values. I guess such currencies ma=
ke up the bulk of the Bitcoin userbase at the moment.</div><div class=3D"">
<div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
"People seem to like mBTC" is just an ad populum fallacy: million=
s of<br>
flies can actually be wrong. Also you haven't showed them micros,<br>
maybe they like it too.</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Saying "=
it's already popular and would take work to change" is not really =
a fallacy now, is it?</div><div><br></div><div>But anyway, this is getting =
silly. You don't have to convince me. Go visit all the services I liste=
d above, plus all the ones I didn't find in my five minutes of searchin=
g, and convince them they're wrong like the flies and switching is the =
best use of their time :o=A0</div>
</div></div></div>
<br>-----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------<br>
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book<br>
"Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases =
and their<br>
applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,<br>
this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!<br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf=
.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech</a><br>_____________________________________________=
__<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
--047d7b4724a207432b04f48170c5--
|
