1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
|
Return-Path: <eric@voskuil.org>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
[172.17.192.35])
by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB896E69
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Mon, 22 Jan 2018 22:52:26 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mail-io0-f194.google.com (mail-io0-f194.google.com
[209.85.223.194])
by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11027285
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Mon, 22 Jan 2018 22:52:25 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-io0-f194.google.com with SMTP id d13so6644438iog.5
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Mon, 22 Jan 2018 14:52:25 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=voskuil-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623;
h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc
:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to;
bh=HjCOD4YJHOZneudf/zE322tpR38QjzBapdRQrWbB/sY=;
b=GSjji0RJU1myM7/Nzow3ghwcLzcrVzzhhD9yth/JXyuGvI3hxjxP3fSkEVi3BdPigY
3GcFqlBVq2Qk+qvsC7XK0C0ceDrMTj8Yq8hPquUZ2QFi4VdVjNrr5zA/B7+TvLoCTpU2
lIfq24I5ZKNWrnxumAtwiGKqDibVKIUQaWmEeFBlPoAAtIqyTMqwZ4tQ6b/6eitRQwhq
J9o2IMvR00dzPVlVILcg5K6bFPjvAisjtySgCD5oISZyUsJBKx39UMZQuOa7ss1cHYTD
9e5tHgRvGWjrrFmTT7CIJcTU2DOhwBrUDeMwUTQZrmM3H5HnC67BT/dXKqSjpcZu2xG3
vgzA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc
:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to;
bh=HjCOD4YJHOZneudf/zE322tpR38QjzBapdRQrWbB/sY=;
b=WOUvOU+o0ZmieSujY9pvRKy72ylqoH/p50vdJNGTGqY/7w3s7cPbByZBdu6o8uilqB
PPuhAXCClBRL5crnFQ8pLZituq3qti1EBz+fliStEK4ISXAkyux3C/j6vWWsuBjKt/02
AXHd6cI3O5zpR2yf0CvOxy1a0j6nzwHaTB8EerDCKJwxUPvZKSUdbBbG+zFQ4fpIS7hm
wqlqm5TpWsLE6QHkLXav14Dhascbp9oXn4sZUrYbTbhtBS8h9ODBbmUONh7v8NrQTlNn
0XMqNJZJY7Y24HNqXw+Z19C2hiL0yMrfXKfHIFZl7+7wXFqhZHwdRk8a3dg29Ve0VEmB
s1Tg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxyte7EEbMmOc8Spqg6CeYEDHpChH4hwa5EULby+oTJs7fhOwibBe7
N+sqWBBrDLx7eHpEFeCPCwdCKw==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x225Grfl3YvQNHWG1kCRc04hjAkJ1bwsx/+uwEaB3slwkG9Jmxtwv58oj9xwb9n0J3q7WU6Id5A==
X-Received: by 10.107.9.200 with SMTP id 69mr762530ioj.289.1516661545435;
Mon, 22 Jan 2018 14:52:25 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ?IPv6:2601:600:a080:16bb:19f4:bd85:8d70:2db3?
([2601:600:a080:16bb:19f4:bd85:8d70:2db3])
by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id
m21sm4329973itb.43.2018.01.22.14.52.24
(version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128);
Mon, 22 Jan 2018 14:52:24 -0800 (PST)
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=utf-8
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
From: Eric Voskuil <eric@voskuil.org>
X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15C153)
In-Reply-To: <091F89E0-FBA0-42F9-9166-CF121A84319F@friedenbach.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 14:52:23 -0800
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <E39CFE95-1A0D-413B-8AC1-7A9BE20737BC@voskuil.org>
References: <CALTsm7iyJjQa5rkddZj2jL_BTdGxH+6Xz78Rt0wOqW1OveecHw@mail.gmail.com>
<CALTsm7gQC8RejAhmobzejEoU4T7xLf77Ykk2m0p=Z2=oM2p0Uw@mail.gmail.com>
<CALTsm7irVCPE0_JE28NviEUdvVoE1bVcQ37w13VX2bKKb_RnVg@mail.gmail.com>
<091F89E0-FBA0-42F9-9166-CF121A84319F@friedenbach.org>
To: Mark Friedenbach <mark@friedenbach.org>,
Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
DKIM_VALID, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE,
RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
smtp1.linux-foundation.org
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 22:53:50 +0000
Cc: Ilan Oh <ilansky.sharkson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Blockchain Voluntary Fork (Split) Proposal
(Chaofan Li)
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 22:52:26 -0000
This is true but confuses people because obviously miners must commit capita=
l to mining before any block space can exist to have value. The reason for t=
he misunderstanding is that miners don=E2=80=99t simply respond, they antici=
pate. All production, and therefore capital investment, is the result of ant=
icipation of future returns, not an attempt to chase past returns.
The first miner anticipated that the then-worthless =E2=80=9Ctokens=E2=80=9D=
he was mining would have a future value. Turns out he was right. Others hav=
e been wrong, which is the nature of betting on future prices. But if nobody=
does it, there are no products.
e
> On Jan 22, 2018, at 11:59, Mark Friedenbach via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@l=
ists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>> On Jan 22, 2018, at 11:01 AM, Ilan Oh via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.=
linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>>=20
>> The chain with the most mining power will tend to have more value.
>=20
> I believe you have the causality on that backwards. The tokens which are w=
orth more value will attract more mining hash rate. Miners respond to cash-o=
ut value, they don=E2=80=99t set it.
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
|