1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
|
Received: from sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com ([172.29.43.191]
helo=mx.sourceforge.net)
by sfs-ml-3.v29.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtp (Exim 4.76)
(envelope-from <gacrux@gmail.com>) id 1WfVBw-0006QY-Ue
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:08:57 +0000
Received-SPF: pass (sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com: domain of gmail.com
designates 209.85.223.178 as permitted sender)
client-ip=209.85.223.178; envelope-from=gacrux@gmail.com;
helo=mail-ie0-f178.google.com;
Received: from mail-ie0-f178.google.com ([209.85.223.178])
by sog-mx-1.v43.ch3.sourceforge.com with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
(Exim 4.76) id 1WfVBw-0000t6-18
for bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net;
Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:08:56 +0000
Received: by mail-ie0-f178.google.com with SMTP id lx4so2008684iec.37
for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>;
Wed, 30 Apr 2014 07:08:50 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.50.1.5 with SMTP id 5mr38373017igi.13.1398866929829;
Wed, 30 Apr 2014 07:08:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.150] (60-240-212-53.tpgi.com.au. [60.240.212.53])
by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id sb11sm6183488igb.0.2014.04.30.07.08.48
for <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
(version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
Wed, 30 Apr 2014 07:08:48 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <536103E9.5060706@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 01 May 2014 00:08:41 +1000
From: Gareth Williams <gacrux@gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64;
rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
References: <CANEZrP3obO9rXKcX+G7bs2dd3AqEFOsO8pCUF6orrkGeZyr9Ew@mail.gmail.com> <CAC1+kJPxwTm6qvh2GYT2XMJAPD5O4WHLOGBTRmchRmZ2wS4MSg@mail.gmail.com> <CANEZrP2PZFVvH3oJyLW80e9W_Fa4bvqQ25E7T-ZFFuG9u-q1hQ@mail.gmail.com> <5359E509.4080907@gmail.com> <CANEZrP0bKe-=T5ps0myLZjo60tv2mkm3Bw0o4e-9y7zb1h5eDg@mail.gmail.com> <535A60FE.10209@gmail.com> <CANEZrP0y45eSVgbzXYmvYy1WEQNyd=tmC2EpZgGSB28poXSzDw@mail.gmail.com> <535BA357.6050607@gmail.com> <CANOOu=_T82zuV79DWZFGK0Nomhp-Y4tqOhw6ZHhCLb2uGtdR5w@mail.gmail.com> <535CFDB4.1000200@gmail.com> <20140428214102.GA8347@netbook.cypherspace.org>
<CANEZrP0E=i6gyJwvLZRTeKvqaVrxR69=UzJWsAqaK2=QSdtn_A@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CANEZrP0E=i6gyJwvLZRTeKvqaVrxR69=UzJWsAqaK2=QSdtn_A@mail.gmail.com>
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6
OpenPGP: id=378E4544
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
protocol="application/pgp-signature";
boundary="MrG6esA1Ki1WWUbidG0e99OAgkHXChEhn"
X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-)
X-Spam-Report: Spam Filtering performed by mx.sourceforge.net.
See http://spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.
-1.5 SPF_CHECK_PASS SPF reports sender host as permitted sender for
sender-domain
0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider
(gacrux[at]gmail.com)
-0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record
-0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from
author's domain
0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature,
not necessarily valid
-0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
X-Headers-End: 1WfVBw-0000t6-18
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Coinbase reallocation to discourage
Finney attacks
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <bitcoin-development.lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=bitcoin-development>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>,
<mailto:bitcoin-development-request@lists.sourceforge.net?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 14:08:57 -0000
This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
--MrG6esA1Ki1WWUbidG0e99OAgkHXChEhn
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 30/04/14 00:13, Mike Hearn wrote:
> Every time miners and nodes ignore a block that creates >formula() coin=
s
> that's a majority vote on a controversial political matter
Actually, there's one more thing I'd like to add. Apologies to the list,
but it bears repeating:
* rejecting a block at validation
Is /very different/ from:
* reinterpreting a block that has already passed validation
Nodes ignoring a block that creates >formula() coins is rejection at
block *validation*. That's the protocol working as it is supposed to.
It's deliberately an all-or-nothing mechanism; you can't pick and choose
which blocks you like. If 51% of the network say your block is invalid,
they're now on a different fork. The consequences are this drastic on
purpose, for stability.
Nodes reinterpreting a block that has already passed validation is
almost the polar opposite of this. They're /ignoring the protocol/ and
making up their own meaning for stuff. Sidestepping the mechanism in the
paragraph above. I would hope it'd be self evident that this is dangerous=
=2E
Adam Back is arguing practicality in this thread. I'm arguing
fundamental principle. (And, er, someone else is randomly throwing
around ad hominems, which we'll politely ignore; Mike could work for
Lucifer himself and his good ideas would still be good, and his bad
ideas would still be bad, so let's just stick to the ideas eh.)
So, fundamental principle: don't reinterpret history!
We have validation for a very good reason. Undermine it and you might as
well have an unvalidated system like Counterparty, which I wouldn't
ever trust with more than the value of a small hamburger.
If the economic majority starts reinterpreting history (through whatever
voting mechanism / side-channel you like) that completely undermines
Bitcoin's validation, and its PoW. It's worse than 51% of miners
deciding to rewrite history.
--MrG6esA1Ki1WWUbidG0e99OAgkHXChEhn
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc"
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTYQPpAAoJEEY5w2E3jkVEVlwH+QHq+GHoIfTnXuOyFDPGqjbA
MOaJ5tIkudbDKxDR3N9EzZF8l75OJBlfZsUlf3UQMY+wzRGVkptdphEe7Q8hqyuj
2jvhcSUI+cbf5n+HMMrtOggNTY1U08i0SZcY0ZtlIbO3qBwTXjRjHfCyTzPhDoGW
fYOIR/n27vEOme+h6vKir+oRB/YYULxXdytzLkQeZ1m2eB2dfRUKlf/snXt7iASg
rT4ALMiOzw3ZdjSpy8dueZL0VPoAariWUWHrmdibD0a+NY8L5pasw21/Wl7o7gB0
lHtVaFk5e4jb6W0FaiIjDz5IXJkEiBUCv4vbEkNEboOQuuN5VpV7+JrZt50n+/U=
=PsVo
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--MrG6esA1Ki1WWUbidG0e99OAgkHXChEhn--
|