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Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] "bits": Unit of account
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I have a rather off-beat suggestion. Perhaps decimal was not satoshi's inten=
tion.

In old English money 1 guinea is 21 shillings. I wonder if 1 million guineas=
 is more or less the total number of bitcoins =3D 21 million shillings. Ther=
e was also the notion of bits (two bob bits =3D 1 florin =3D 2 shillings). I=
 quite like the idea as it's absolutely not expected.

Old English money is a funny mix of decimal and imperial (base12) measures b=
ut may have some interesting properties, one of which would be to have multi=
ple names for overlapping "layers" not just the 2 or 3 that has been mention=
ed here and elsewhere.

I wonder in the long run if this will not just naturally occur anyway.

Regards

Chris D'Costa

Email: chris_dcosta@meek.io

Sent from my iPhone

> On 23 Apr 2014, at 11:56, Tamas Blummer <tamas@bitsofproof.com> wrote:
>=20
> The problem is =C2=B5BTC that bit tries to solve.=20
>=20
> BTC, mBTC and =C2=B5BTC are just too similiar for enyone else than enginee=
rs. The mixed use of them leads to misunderstanding.=20
> I think adoption would benefit of a single unit with easily remembered and=
 associated name that has no smaller than 1/100 fractions called satoshis.
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Tam=C3=A1s Blummer
> Founder, CEO
> <email.png>
> http://bitsofproof.com
>=20
>> On 23.04.2014, at 11:44, Danny Hamilton <danny.hamilton@gmail.com> wrote:=

>>=20
>> It seems to me that xbit is no more distinct or intuitive than =C2=B5bit.=
 In either case it's simply an arbitrary character in front of the word "bit=
".  Of course, for the majority of the world familiar with SI, the =C2=B5 ac=
tually adds additional meaning that is lost with the x.
>>=20
>> Furthermore, given the multiple concerns voiced about the overuse of the w=
ord "bit", =C2=B5BTC seems to solve the problem.
>>=20
>> Since we are talking about how it would be displayed in software, we don'=
t need to be concerned about how people will pronounce it, or what the nickn=
ame will be.  If most of the wallets start displaying amounts in =C2=B5BTC q=
uantities, it will be obvious that a =C2=B5BTC is a different magnitude than=
 a BTC.  Nobody is going to look at their 100,000 =C2=B5BTC balance and thin=
k they have 100,000 BTC. People will immediately make the mental adjustment t=
o the new order of magnitude even if they don't specifically know that =C2=B5=
 means micro, or that micro means 1e-6.
>>=20
>> Nicknames will form organically (much like buck, fin, large, k, grand, an=
d benny for U.S. currency), I've always been partial to milly (or millie) an=
d mike (or micky) as nicknames for mBTC and =C2=B5BTC.  I've personally used=
 those when speaking with people, and they seem to catch on pretty quickly.
>>=20
>> As has already been mentioned, you're going to be hard pressed to find so=
ftware that denotes U.S. balances in "bucks".  There isn't any good reason t=
o be coding a nickname like "bit", "xbit", or "mike" into wallet software.
>>=20
>> -  Danny Hamilton
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Aaron Axvig <aaron@axvigs.com> wrote:
>>> That piece of horse equipment is called a bit in the US too.  But the po=
int
>>> stands: most people don't use "bit" on a daily basis other than referrin=
g to
>>> "a little bit of <something>."
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Wladimir [mailto:laanwj@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2014 11:27 AM
>>> To: Chris Pacia
>>> Cc: Bitcoin Dev
>>> Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] "bits": Unit of account
>>>=20
>>> On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Chris Pacia <ctpacia@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > The term bit is really only overloaded for those who are techy. 95% of=

>>> > the population never uses the term bit in their daily lives and I
>>> > doubt most could even name one use of the term.
>>> > Plus bit used to be a unit of money way back when, so this is kind of
>>> > reclaiming it. I think it's a great fit.
>>>=20
>>> That's a very anglocentric way of thinking.
>>>=20
>>> Here in the Netherlands, a "bit" is something you put in a horses's mout=
h.
>>> It's also used as imported word (in the information sense).
>>> We've never used the term for money.
>>>=20
>>> Wladimir
>>>=20
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
>>> --
>>> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book "Graph Databases" is=
 the
>>> definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written b=
y
>>> three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now availabl=
e.
>>> Download your free book today!
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>>=20
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------
>>> Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform
>>> Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
>>> Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
>>> Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>=20
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
>> Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform
>> Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
>> Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
>> Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform__________________________________________=
_____
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>=20
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
> Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform
> Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software
> Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready
> Get Started Now And Turn Your Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(=
255, 255, 255, 0); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">I have a rather off-beat=
 suggestion. Perhaps decimal was not satoshi's intention.</span><br><div><sp=
an style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255,=
 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: au=
to; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">In old English money 1 guinea=
 is 21 shillings. I wonder if 1 million guineas is more or less the total nu=
mber of bitcoins =3D 21 million shillings. There was also the notion of bits=
 (two bob bits =3D 1 florin =3D 2 shillings). I quite like the idea as it's a=
bsolutely not expected.</span></div><div><span style=3D"-webkit-text-size-ad=
just: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div=
><span style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 2=
55, 255, 0);">Old English money is a funny mix of decimal and imperial (base=
12) measures but may have some interesting properties, one of which would be=
 to have multiple names for overlapping "layers" not just the 2 or 3 that ha=
s been mentioned here and elsewhere.</span></div><div><span style=3D"-webkit=
-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></sp=
an></div><div><span style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-colo=
r: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I wonder in the long run if this will not just n=
aturally occur anyway.</span></div><div><span style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adj=
ust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>Regards</span><div=
><span style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 2=
55, 255, 0);"><br></span><div><span style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;=
 background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Chris D'Costa</span></div><div><=
span style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 25=
5, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: a=
uto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Email:&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:chris_dcosta@meek.io">chris_dcosta@meek.io</a></span></div></div></div><di=
v style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><div><br></div><div>Sent from my=
 iPhone</div></div></div><div style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><br>=
On 23 Apr 2014, at 11:56, Tamas Blummer &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tamas@bitsofpr=
oof.com">tamas@bitsofproof.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D=
"cite" style=3D"-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"><div><meta http-equiv=3D"Co=
ntent-Type" content=3D"text/html charset=3Diso-8859-1">The problem is =C2=B5=
BTC that bit tries to solve.&nbsp;<div><br></div><div>BTC, mBTC and&nbsp;=C2=
=B5BTC are just too similiar for enyone else than engineers. The mixed use o=
f them leads to misunderstanding.&nbsp;</div><div>I think adoption would ben=
efit of a single unit with easily remembered and associated name that has no=
 smaller than 1/100 fractions called satoshis.<br><div apple-content-edited=3D=
"true"><br style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 1=
2px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-s=
pacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0=
px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-te=
xt-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0=
, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-vari=
ant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: norma=
l; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-s=
pace: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2;=
 widows: 2; float: none; display: inline !important;">Regards,</span><br sty=
le=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-sty=
le: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: norma=
l; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-tra=
nsform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-wi=
dth: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><br style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-fam=
ily: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; f=
ont-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align:=
 -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; w=
ord-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><s=
pan style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; f=
ont-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing=
: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; t=
ext-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-st=
roke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; float: none; display: inline !import=
ant;">Tam=C3=A1s Blummer</span><br style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family=
: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font=
-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -w=
ebkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; wor=
d-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><spa=
n style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; fon=
t-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: n=
ormal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text=
-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-strok=
e-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; float: none; display: inline !important=
;">Founder, CEO</span><br style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helveti=
ca; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: n=
ormal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto=
; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing:=
 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span style=3D=
"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: n=
ormal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; li=
ne-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-=
transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webk=
it-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span>&lt;email.png&gt;</span><br style=3D"color=
: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;=
 font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-hei=
ght: normal; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: non=
e; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; o=
rphans: 2; widows: 2;"><span style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helv=
etica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weigh=
t: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: -webkit-=
auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spac=
ing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; float: none=
; display: inline !important;"><a href=3D"http://bitsofproof.com">http://bit=
sofproof.com</a></span>
</span></div>
<br><div><div>On 23.04.2014, at 11:44, Danny Hamilton &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
danny.hamilton@gmail.com">danny.hamilton@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br c=
lass=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div><div><div><div>It seems to me that xbit is no more distinct or intuit=
ive than =C2=B5bit. In either case it's simply an arbitrary character in fro=
nt of the word "bit".&nbsp; Of course, for the majority of the world familia=
r with SI, the =C2=B5 actually adds additional meaning that is lost with the=
 x.<br>

<br></div><div>Furthermore, given the multiple concerns voiced about the ove=
ruse of the word "bit", =C2=B5BTC seems to solve the problem.<br><br></div>S=
ince we are talking about how it would be displayed in software, we don't ne=
ed to be concerned about how people will pronounce it, or what the nickname w=
ill be.&nbsp; If most of the wallets start displaying amounts in =C2=B5BTC q=
uantities, it will be obvious that a =C2=B5BTC is a different magnitude than=
 a BTC.&nbsp; Nobody is going to look at their 100,000 =C2=B5BTC balance and=
 think they have 100,000 BTC. People will immediately make the mental adjust=
ment to the new order of magnitude even if they don't specifically know that=
 =C2=B5 means micro, or that micro means 1e-6.<br>

<br></div>Nicknames will form organically (much like buck, fin, large, k, gr=
and, and benny for U.S. currency), I've always been partial to milly (or mil=
lie) and mike (or micky) as nicknames for mBTC and =C2=B5BTC.&nbsp; I've per=
sonally used those when speaking with people, and they seem to catch on pret=
ty quickly.<br>

<br></div>As has already been mentioned, you're going to be hard pressed to f=
ind software that denotes U.S. balances in "bucks".&nbsp; There isn't any go=
od reason to be coding a nickname like "bit", "xbit", or "mike" into wallet s=
oftware.<br>

<br></div>-&nbsp; Danny Hamilton<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Aaron Axvig <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:aaron@axvigs.com" target=3D"_blank">aar=
on@axvigs.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px=
 #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">That piece of horse equipment is called a bit i=
n the US too. &nbsp;But the point<br>
stands: most people don't use "bit" on a daily basis other than referring to=
<br>
"a little bit of &lt;something&gt;."<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Wladimir [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:laanwj@gmail.com">laanwj@gmail.com<=
/a>]<br>
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2014 11:27 AM<br>
To: Chris Pacia<br>
Cc: Bitcoin Dev<br>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] "bits": Unit of account<br>
<br>
On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Chris Pacia &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ctpacia@g=
mail.com">ctpacia@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; The term bit is really only overloaded for those who are techy. 95% of<=
br>
&gt; the population never uses the term bit in their daily lives and I<br>
&gt; doubt most could even name one use of the term.<br>
&gt; Plus bit used to be a unit of money way back when, so this is kind of<b=
r>
&gt; reclaiming it. I think it's a great fit.<br>
<br>
That's a very anglocentric way of thinking.<br>
<br>
Here in the Netherlands, a "bit" is something you put in a horses's mouth.<b=
r>
It's also used as imported word (in the information sense).<br>
We've never used the term for money.<br>
<br>
Wladimir<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
<br>
--<br>
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book "Graph Databases" is the=
<br>
definitive new guide to graph databases and their applications. Written by<b=
r>
three acclaimed leaders in the field, this first edition is now available.<b=
r>
Download your free book today!<br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/NeoTech" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf.net/sf=
u/NeoTech</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develop=
ment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-deve=
lopment</a><br>
<br>
</div></div><div class=3D"im HOEnZb">---------------------------------------=
---------------------------------------<br>
Start Your Social Network Today - Download eXo Platform<br>
Build your Enterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software<br>
Java Based Open Source Intranet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready<br>
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nterprise Intranet with eXo Platform Software<br>Java Based Open Source Intr=
anet - Social, Extensible, Cloud Ready<br>Get Started Now And Turn Your Intr=
anet Into A Collaboration Platform<br><a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlat=
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-------------------------------</span><br><span>Start Your Social Network To=
day - Download eXo Platform</span><br><span>Build your Enterprise Intranet w=
ith eXo Platform Software</span><br><span>Java Based Open Source Intranet - S=
ocial, Extensible, Cloud Ready</span><br><span>Get Started Now And Turn Your=
 Intranet Into A Collaboration Platform</span><br><span><a href=3D"http://p.=
sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform">http://p.sf.net/sfu/ExoPlatform</a></span></div></bl=
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