1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
|
Return-Path: <steven.pine@gmail.com>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
[172.17.192.35])
by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08165182C
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Mon, 5 Oct 2015 20:05:25 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mail-ig0-f175.google.com (mail-ig0-f175.google.com
[209.85.213.175])
by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5BCC61B1
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Mon, 5 Oct 2015 20:05:24 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by igbkq10 with SMTP id kq10so71653718igb.0
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Mon, 05 Oct 2015 13:05:24 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
:cc:content-type;
bh=UD59S/uM7jcnhZ/bVmosP0JB+sVQ9D5Ph5h02EzITB4=;
b=btv+Z6bdH2hhhINsDvkal+ccCASAdeglm6rFCixiqyPc4pH5crky+PuRZFV6DLeA21
8z83/pu2WYoo6i/oiqRCa4nloEkuhf3ksCsaAMf/bMihp6DP8BmFEI6JH2Oqgw5bNL3Y
p8RWo9CTpHB2qbcAepzmnfWxQjKB5zj3XoQIsOV5DdfXn5xs1P4+zB7wipJT9lMAKV3M
aLEZOkz4BsJKAoveDHiPnz+LcRHVp1GSLZZE6bmWDTcRMqYk4DWm9treDLB4e7r+z3i4
Hr0W2u3ZZ0hoRvDEWGCw/DNtXGUERG2aJShki6dTQ3wmwqsNAkoHGF4eX9LKsYyc4ISg
BKUg==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.50.40.33 with SMTP id u1mr11382646igk.25.1444075523916; Mon,
05 Oct 2015 13:05:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.36.57.8 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 13:05:23 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.36.57.8 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 13:05:23 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CAAS2fgSyWaRfXHKWZYzZ4X8ksMECaO47dTXum67XwpTTYnbDXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKzdR-rPoByn=+CgsTc1ZnLkjwtYyJnbQLbn-VHOvz0dLciefQ@mail.gmail.com>
<CAAS2fgQ3Qs=s7qwhxjwJa9cLJLMJg+LXjPQDCGUDMEjyrHqO_A@mail.gmail.com>
<1489086.kGfJeeyi4a@garp>
<CAAS2fgSyWaRfXHKWZYzZ4X8ksMECaO47dTXum67XwpTTYnbDXg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 16:05:23 -0400
Message-ID: <CAAjy6kC_Je-Gcgvadtr-9+GBYid7ifQ8=DM_XEc7u6ATkka_-g@mail.gmail.com>
From: Steven Pine <steven.pine@gmail.com>
To: Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01228c4ea1cbb90521610806
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW
autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
smtp1.linux-foundation.org
Cc: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] This thread is not about the soft/hard fork
technical debate
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Development Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2015 20:05:25 -0000
--089e01228c4ea1cbb90521610806
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
It's pretty clear Mike has turned into concern troll and bully. He insults
people, mischaracterizes others, quibbles over words and definitions and
has stated numerous times in other forums he has no interest in building
consensus changes he doesn't agree with himself.
He's lost his integrity and trust and why the core developers waste their
time with his antics is beyond me, let Mike fork Bitcoin, develop XT, and
ignore his input on core unless some XT feature is deemed good enough to
incorporate, that is how a thousand other open source projects deal with
trolls like Mike.
On Oct 5, 2015 3:41 PM, "Gregory Maxwell via bitcoin-dev" <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 7:13 PM, Tom Zander via bitcoin-dev
> <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> > It is an eloquent change, but not really the topic we were discussing.
> It also
> > makes you attack Mike (calling him out as having a strawman) without
> basis.
> > For the second time in this thread.
> > I would suggest arguing on the topic, not on the man.
>
> Such a shame you appear to reserve that wisdom for those you disagree
> with, biting your tongue when others emit all forms of ad hominem--
> such as suggesting we've spent less volunteer time on Bitcoin and thus
> our opinion has less merit (or that we haven't written certian kinds
> of software (even when, ironically, we have!), and thus our opinion
> doesn't have merit, and so on). I think everyone would benefit from
> it, especially as that kind of correction is best received from
> someone who agrees with you.
>
> In this case, I think, however your correction is also misplaced at
> least on this message; though I would otherwise welcome it. I'm not
> complaining about the man; but pointing out the behavior of stating an
> opinion no one as held as theirs and attacking it is not a productive
> way to hold a discussion. It's an argument or a behavior, not a
> person, and beyond calling it bad I attempted to explaining (perhaps
> poorly) why its bad.
>
> What Sergio is saying is not the same; Mike argued some established
> criteria existed where it didn't-- and I was pointing that out; and
> talking about how the situation here is not very similar to the one
> that Mike was trying to draw a parallel to. I enumerated a number of
> specific reasons why this is the case. If the differences between
> Sergio's comments and mine are still unclear after this clarification,
> I'd be glad to talk it through with you off-list-- in spite of your
> (welcome) compliments, communication is just fundamentally difficult,
> and no amount eloquence changes that. If there is continued
> misunderstanding, I do not doubt its my fault; but it's probably not a
> good use of hundreds/thousands of people's time for you to help me
> interactively improve my explanation on list. :)
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
--089e01228c4ea1cbb90521610806
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<p dir=3D"ltr">It's pretty clear Mike has turned into=C2=A0 concern tro=
ll and bully. He insults people, mischaracterizes others, quibbles over wor=
ds and definitions and has stated numerous times in other forums he has no =
interest in building consensus changes he doesn't agree with himself.</=
p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">He's lost his integrity and trust and why the core devel=
opers waste their time with his antics is beyond me, let Mike fork Bitcoin,=
develop XT, and ignore his input on core unless some XT feature is deemed =
good enough to incorporate, that is how a thousand other open source projec=
ts deal with trolls like Mike.</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Oct 5, 2015 3:41 PM, "Gregory Maxwell vi=
a bitcoin-dev" <<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation=
.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attri=
bution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border=
-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 7:13 PM, Tom =
Zander via bitcoin-dev<br>
<<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@li=
sts.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> It is an eloquent change, but not really the topic we were discussing.=
It also<br>
> makes you attack Mike (calling him out as having a strawman) without b=
asis.<br>
> For the second time in this thread.<br>
> I would suggest arguing on the topic, not on the man.<br>
<br>
Such a shame you appear to reserve that wisdom for those you disagree<br>
with, biting your tongue when others emit all forms of ad hominem--<br>
such as suggesting we've spent less volunteer time on Bitcoin and thus<=
br>
our opinion has less merit (or that we haven't written certian kinds<br=
>
of software (even when, ironically, we have!), and thus our opinion<br>
doesn't have merit, and so on). I think everyone would benefit from<br>
it, especially as that kind of correction is best received from<br>
someone who agrees with you.<br>
<br>
In this case, I think, however your correction is also misplaced at<br>
least on this message; though I would otherwise welcome it.=C2=A0 I'm n=
ot<br>
complaining about the man; but pointing out the behavior of stating an<br>
opinion no one as held as theirs and attacking it is not a productive<br>
way to hold a discussion. It's an argument or a behavior, not a<br>
person, and beyond calling it bad I attempted to explaining (perhaps<br>
poorly) why its bad.<br>
<br>
What Sergio is saying is not the same; Mike argued some established<br>
criteria existed where it didn't-- and I was pointing that out; and<br>
talking about how the situation here is not very similar to the one<br>
that Mike was trying to draw a parallel to. I enumerated a number of<br>
specific reasons why this is the case. If the differences between<br>
Sergio's comments and mine are still unclear after this clarification,<=
br>
I'd be glad to talk it through with you off-list-- in spite of your<br>
(welcome) compliments, communication is just fundamentally difficult,<br>
and no amount eloquence changes that. If there is continued<br>
misunderstanding, I do not doubt its my fault; but it's probably not a<=
br>
good use of hundreds/thousands of people's time for you to help me<br>
interactively improve my explanation on list. :)<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
--089e01228c4ea1cbb90521610806--
|
