summaryrefslogtreecommitdiff
path: root/95/71a95ad7711c7e39374ac36f831c68665c0627
blob: 2bb752d9858f67b9578fbff8d028c70b6cebc8ca (plain)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
Return-Path: <tamas.blummer@gmail.com>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
	[172.17.192.35])
	by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 934F917E7
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Tue,  2 Jul 2019 09:47:07 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mail-wr1-f41.google.com (mail-wr1-f41.google.com
	[209.85.221.41])
	by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DB41782
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Tue,  2 Jul 2019 09:47:06 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-wr1-f41.google.com with SMTP id e3so7461623wrs.11
	for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
	Tue, 02 Jul 2019 02:47:06 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
	h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to
	:references; bh=culRUYpjv/tJ0i7qJPBRlr60pkqGWmn4UjcUyTHSals=;
	b=g43tkgHuRi+DaiPMb10/4p13kBcahQge4pRET4VkCrOYD+FfK2Se8VzekxeN+wAH1S
	r8/l7YYkXihp5sqCtIT6HN8r1SOkeUa9g6HU/7TqOa/kYBhCGfGRucU1uQnu4y3NqSNi
	83aqgeZDQpPnx4X5K3D/GjpqhsrgI+ERdDOTSq0b+FqVwb1rYVeVHxBLteQ4KL23D8yg
	gG9DPhPeZDFTB81s5xyudkjgtSx1lspL3dSidLyQG52kABByJSFHgR0EF2y5mAwjpJHW
	iHXkejXWLygMko3yJUuFLHV9bLufOvBv3MHS6cGZD4nI7etyQUbhnB/sZPP/SBYfUDBD
	drwA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
	d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
	h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date
	:in-reply-to:cc:to:references;
	bh=culRUYpjv/tJ0i7qJPBRlr60pkqGWmn4UjcUyTHSals=;
	b=V6vG2MryXPJzkP7jLWSC1cvAmCyBe/RaBlr7poYLTfarqpkzekzQXVNvA6PNscX6/c
	IPGy0wH1AjvMHNd+NRBrpU0cqwgEO0c0gSiYoeam7+TNZ6Rjvfq0TBW8FYjTXxOhzYSC
	Zh00MCnxo4KgEdE00iaue+QlKmnzCcZ3mZsJP3jueEpBBjL/Din+QvA7TdqDThqKhqVO
	ixdapzWZ3I62WAxNR2O6QjgLbJWYN2hptJGn8FIfILRc9a9V6nVfEWtSL8I//0+xrjzE
	uA9Y5PFMg7d+oaXR9TzZLgWBuVjcufFjcDHvESS/zcOKS3F8tTeCMnJF5HZHIhQJdA1U
	gZvw==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXmgI4mkNC0Q/D3gMmpo+s9HTcM3dyOAbT762Aq16koUoO4ng/Y
	c9mh+Sfv8fk6bid9/lLfphA=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz1Xpzh+Do3nFgA6fumiyMNqSrHOpAAiAXL6XWp1TRZYpS3CtbJg6/c4BhonP/XjPsVCcioqQ==
X-Received: by 2002:adf:ec49:: with SMTP id w9mr21402799wrn.303.1562060825692; 
	Tue, 02 Jul 2019 02:47:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from p200300dd67126425e9a7d1e9d2533603.dip0.t-ipconnect.de
	(p200300DD67126425E9A7D1E9D2533603.dip0.t-ipconnect.de.
	[2003:dd:6712:6425:e9a7:d1e9:d253:3603])
	by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id
	s12sm1856686wmh.34.2019.07.02.02.47.04
	(version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128);
	Tue, 02 Jul 2019 02:47:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tamas Blummer <tamas.blummer@gmail.com>
Message-Id: <36BCB402-E236-41D7-8211-7DCDF0F34243@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed;
	boundary="Apple-Mail=_B0E3B760-B5FF-4C17-8E9C-F52DA1B5DADF";
	protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\))
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 11:47:09 +0200
In-Reply-To: <38FAD812-A764-49F5-BA80-ED10685A1714@gmail.com>
To: ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com>
References: <0DBC0DEA-C999-4AEE-B2E1-D5337ECD9405@gmail.com>
	<BF027CD0-FE29-4DD1-AB96-DE92B597AD18@gmail.com>
	<3F46CDD5-DA80-49C8-A51F-8066680EF347@voskuil.org>
	<A4A6099F-F115-4CBF-B7D5-F16581476126@gmail.com>
	<063D7C06-F5D8-425B-80CE-CAE03A1AAD0C@voskuil.org>
	<0AA10217-E1CC-46D1-9B43-038CEEF942CD@gmail.com>
	<E72C4A8E-F850-400B-B19B-7D06B8A169EC@voskuil.org>
	<0Bwi2ejRw4BgoABZ0X0kBdwLAkIKEv1svoyi0zqGQPeqV1g8xR43tBMgYoS52Vcxkgj7DndmNLIje40au51trIGTvrpcet8GivTgqysVC8w=@protonmail.com>
	<0190F226-7133-4B6D-8750-25CAB5C73D17@gmail.com>
	<7E8yyDSqmXEfFtcZRx2vdmPuovamf67X6aDHrokgaYScm01zPivVKpI3Br2PrzBdVdvKBqECP96EFB5ebT8sPfMWU8npJwS_wujFs00bcqU=@protonmail.com>
	<38FAD812-A764-49F5-BA80-ED10685A1714@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273)
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
	DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM,
	RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
	smtp1.linux-foundation.org
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 02 Jul 2019 13:00:30 +0000
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Generalized covenants with taproot enable
 riskless or risky lending,
 prevent credit inflation through fractional reserve
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
	<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2019 09:47:07 -0000


--Apple-Mail=_B0E3B760-B5FF-4C17-8E9C-F52DA1B5DADF
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=us-ascii

Hello ZmnSCPxj,

I share your goal to move everything possible off-chain.

The discussion of covenant is not an on/off-chain discussion, but if =
covenant is needed to solve problems we currently can not and which =
unlock significant innovation.

Consensus support of the covenant is only needed if an unchained setup =
using it is closed uncooperatively, otherwise there is not even a reason =
to disclose on-chain that a covenant was used.

Regards,

Tamas Blummer

> On Jul 2, 2019, at 11:30, Tamas Blummer <tamas.blummer@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hello ZmnSCPxj,
>=20
>> On Jul 2, 2019, at 10:12, ZmnSCPxj <ZmnSCPxj@protonmail.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> As a counterargument, I observe that committing to the advertisement =
on the UTXO is similar to committing to a SCRIPT on a UTXO.
>> And I observe the Graftroot idea, wherein we commit to a public key =
on the UTXO, and admit a SCRIPT that is signed by the public key as a =
SCRIPT that unlocks the UTXO for spending.
>>=20
>> By analogy, in my "advertising" scheme, instead of committing the =
advertisement on the UTXO, I can instead commit a public key (for =
example, the hash of the "advertiser pubkey" is used to tweak the =
onchain public key).
>> Then we use this advertiser pubkey to admit advertisements on the =
advertising network.
>>=20
>> This advertiser pubkey is used to sign an "advertisement chain", =
which is a merklized singly-linked list whose contents are the actual =
advertisements, each node being signed using the advertiser pubkey.
>> To ensure that the advertiser does not sign multiple versions of this =
chain, we can have the signing nonce be derived from the height of the =
advertchain, such that signing the same height multiple times leads to =
private key revelation.
>=20
> The advertiser would thereby put the funds of the HODLer on risk of =
his misbehavior, which means the HODLer would have to trust the =
advertizing service.
> This is not the trustless separation the covenant achives.
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Tamas Blummer
>=20


--Apple-Mail=_B0E3B760-B5FF-4C17-8E9C-F52DA1B5DADF
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename=signature.asc
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature;
	name=signature.asc
Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEE6YNJViYMM6Iv5f9e9nKRxRdxORwFAl0bKB0ACgkQ9nKRxRdx
ORwEOAf+NPe1ugzzTSSj2dmuRj4NA106y3mxa47/kcHKO9lcMFMF8N/aryr7x7ir
eKC3fLyX1j1c7c7X1ZBWlVfvZA0fbAlU2rXtLTTSG2D2CwATU5QAdhDKZNa0lvTH
R3VhYmxmUPa0HjRHcMIX/6ZSxyXWW0kjO1bxg0+cXAT35MkGlaXcuioTVRgbLYNw
UBDiLCanX+2UwsJpZJLTp+cBrjGYprBQPxEIsaQzIsr1sLrXz5CFHsNLFr3VX1Di
MHbgR1xOLIhcs5oLrpnloGoXwx3+IKw9zwOM1he1z8YSf9MVPpe8IcuGIigwZ+A4
xwIlb2NfBlrksMJ2ylLZiK20Mvf6mA==
=PpIq
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--Apple-Mail=_B0E3B760-B5FF-4C17-8E9C-F52DA1B5DADF--