1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
|
Delivery-date: Fri, 14 Mar 2025 06:01:58 -0700
Received: from mail-oo1-f63.google.com ([209.85.161.63])
by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
(Exim 4.94.2)
(envelope-from <bitcoindev+bncBAABBPOR2C7AMGQEWCMH5HY@googlegroups.com>)
id 1tt4fl-0004JH-OK
for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Fri, 14 Mar 2025 06:01:58 -0700
Received: by mail-oo1-f63.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-5fd04668bd8sf1441137eaf.1
for <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>; Fri, 14 Mar 2025 06:01:57 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1741957312; cv=pass;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=AvHRksUx2GUR750d0Yjd1/DDowfs6+T3DZmhQLv4/9wbn/pl7J2iT1SsWVbo1W/AYP
LBmaK1nM23k3MdKGQ9wkXKSYt88nCDApkT22G4PpU56XKUR9JPqfMH7WPkyzjLXLOPxd
LnnOKDFUK4ESMiJbsqvM9OA0fOrihKCE81IeKShy1TTqmnfztRZWibU9n/MT2oISGkgl
TMSiy6Q4gxPInzq4JoKp4bZy6pSjlyLB2bh7ODwIJsOSFpXCbovV2bPAyrWMOtMoxsTG
MrOmeHuRyZ46ERi0aUq4Y6J7r11/bovpUyHQztWEPpFrA62NKKSnOIrDEQsufH/X9oBI
Vp8A==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:to:references:message-id
:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date:in-reply-to:from:subject
:mime-version:feedback-id:sender:dkim-signature;
bh=XJMi0JNM5BOdE6ORntOcx1dQx7i843YHI8/vnJs8rII=;
fh=5cK/r/8evFe5R9Sv4xgESMspQX2K1h0AGKUXMaTNrEw=;
b=bdYwUtllTaYdtRKny/9GjAsaiRvpQg+s9hiTzzg369KBQd0Mg3Gpoc/Or4uJf0iyQf
WE1kRARx1uSENp7tT+8IU18CJfMfTdLOHkJAl5Inwi7TW7NKay4b2YLfMmV+u5+C7WKC
ButMSYSHumIkBNj/xledXjqYe+MjjoZp4RFleVMV+96GfI+wtvjog3k/MNb26MpQor+4
kaXAxHkwSA3+U+JhqYyLeAxt8+t9LlXXvy7rvRMN8Y8My5+L9afGwrkdabpueAWiCTX+
SNytsZnfBX4Ur15IvCHDtG3jFUpdTCj62JmxSraYv09snBgaQKlBsAez26Ku3xVMJ5ys
5Ccw==;
darn=gnusha.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@sprovoost.nl header.s=fm2 header.b=mOdKn7xD;
dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm1 header.b=xVonLG+v;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of sjors@sprovoost.nl designates 103.168.172.147 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sjors@sprovoost.nl;
dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=sprovoost.nl
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1741957312; x=1742562112; darn=gnusha.org;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:to:references:message-id
:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date:in-reply-to:from:subject
:mime-version:feedback-id:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id
:reply-to;
bh=XJMi0JNM5BOdE6ORntOcx1dQx7i843YHI8/vnJs8rII=;
b=OS/gnNKp3y1ZoyofyigDKKiZ6COT0AsJm4nYtm64rZ1XkOKQrdzepTDbNsUacAfEOr
b3CvZu7wAXXSfQpngMtG+NDIkFo8dXe9Sj7UmsuEx5mTbYSc1zM+lsyJzI5sZvKxSfN1
cKcArpTpCNj458jUcGR/Bem2EIseI9KiKA+PQFRl++S9H2RGZfKZ2/sgj7rduTXcO/ew
8aorfOGA/wLygLrepRB5CK442yqxmqhIKMIMLQYICIcwqHlS9K9YEIJHg9/maI9ZmXCu
YPt2oNZTNXmFo3kIsmvL/iQSeH7hDmv3hv9LbnzijNqmX79gYabJecg3Hworky9Qb1Kd
ktzA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1741957312; x=1742562112;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:to:references:message-id
:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date:in-reply-to:from:subject
:mime-version:feedback-id:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state:sender:from
:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=XJMi0JNM5BOdE6ORntOcx1dQx7i843YHI8/vnJs8rII=;
b=BPEQq7svIUDNIOCtirIq36NMO7UEXJ765hIyyJiyHAbiFIhf0wn3MLeQjrLmyBbFwg
5UHNyShjbXjDQsy6eKWxulpCUlD7gF0qdUG2bkjf+44/jDXqRrghd9pgD3UYRepU8B8G
dVudx6oNnzRnyVyS0j9E6p/GKRf/8NYp1Ku+41XfmxTvL2EBuFl+JmFBl4uyE8b7yxYO
o88mf5doB0OG1/nR82ZtM0WuBwaOFGoKQH3tj98TW5VHj7G4czUlJhNgxTvglqyf4hKK
QXgTM8pNQX6S3yrcjAya12zoQ9bn0xh+LKnHYWywibQCHHP4KJ6VVeL3Pc/hko4ZIJ3R
E91w==
Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCWOUIWdHPFMoHPt4r4f45MYcYK3425KcqB672w7zHEbtS7SyURqhoaMngpd2SAnub2WawiA2XYtgVUo@gnusha.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz+N1ekL6EU2qTFXdYt2SbJz1frpJBSAFzDtgEov9qdWYNgELYn
ngSsukwIeaxb2Sy2MV1pL6SWB4yGO2um4MD3D1hvLcHWCSz0+2zh
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHH08M2LkSJiN5OwjWxZlBa0s1E7JMR5bDEYP+bJNVoCeMWbzDOnWrhVWo6h3J/Qr6/y+WGGA==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6820:209:b0:5fd:b60:ce94 with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-601e45a7a6dmr968559eaf.2.1741957312111;
Fri, 14 Mar 2025 06:01:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h=Adn5yVElR5zFs2CpEiDPDU2dh5ZFswr2+Wa72EikYuJZY7cG7w==
Received: by 2002:a4a:c388:0:b0:600:5d08:133f with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-601d874e1a6ls574722eaf.0.-pod-prod-03-us;
Fri, 14 Mar 2025 06:01:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:3507:b0:3f8:578:5e2e with SMTP id 5614622812f47-3fdee838c06mr1023767b6e.11.1741957309697;
Fri, 14 Mar 2025 06:01:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1a1b:b0:3fa:6f09:b173 with SMTP id 5614622812f47-3fde05287ebmsb6e;
Fri, 14 Mar 2025 02:32:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:3a10:b0:2fe:b174:31fe with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-30151c7a291mr2630925a91.2.1741944724011;
Fri, 14 Mar 2025 02:32:04 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1741944724; cv=none;
d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
b=MRXDoKMvk2AYnBi2viQLxUlvKW20PB+5DrOeI0PQ8bcdNwpyaXX/9Ry8FPK7ZnVEj9
6IrbuqcQQfwG4EeveULV47jHgOwd9OmMeIMdZgEmt4BjgI8yBjfQG5VJCn4CuuZojvqs
9am8K2OnrRh96b61hwB2gqadyQLraV7Qqe7EvRBCK5zWvHJicXXN1xSRaCrHaNdvMpPC
b/5yDGUWeSX85YexrODFGh5Eo31aEsB9VfxCpfROqJvFFIOvFcGVsCdcYMNTGNhogzT5
LrilKlDpWEITZUQuS6nU4jb5NLPc6fSw7o53mDpksg/dSDAI5z5vI093wQe8MTGPQIeA
785w==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date
:in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:feedback-id:dkim-signature
:dkim-signature;
bh=nVfxgIU53tC/meTkpwv/bNdtfkoYrp+MYw2hcAbHyYM=;
fh=WWPczp9Yr6RU8k4QuJeW1vAr8BprZ/vI4frj/+2OV8U=;
b=Qsyo+QLIYQiK1KBIsLZAYxcvs3L1xT+ThGmPk8CK2nBkY4dPxaLQUD9dMr3UwZ1fiW
kAQqefX/ggu5U4eLxsbGiB5JxCGKzq8SS1Oi313B0js04e+zOXCVxdz1JcGY3LquITYQ
sL2Vo43XSJN0PABbedzWUSuswQ7H7IWFt4HAmIEn98kd/XQf4PaJneb5Fsgdf7tuDa4C
IodVnnVyim2yUc3chfp/94rPDrHzwhCv+Ojy/RGhtjXY3lgsy3/FxjkpQw1Y8Bvix5TU
BAzJyvPMeuTAMbcB9GDO48Go2ldaH8/Gjto4gsIdlIcPXXU4csXphHRwymxRiKGcJCV3
Al7w==;
dara=google.com
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@sprovoost.nl header.s=fm2 header.b=mOdKn7xD;
dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm1 header.b=xVonLG+v;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of sjors@sprovoost.nl designates 103.168.172.147 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sjors@sprovoost.nl;
dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=sprovoost.nl
Received: from fout-a4-smtp.messagingengine.com (fout-a4-smtp.messagingengine.com. [103.168.172.147])
by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 98e67ed59e1d1-301534c3453si64956a91.0.2025.03.14.02.32.03
for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
(version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
Fri, 14 Mar 2025 02:32:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of sjors@sprovoost.nl designates 103.168.172.147 as permitted sender) client-ip=103.168.172.147;
Received: from phl-compute-10.internal (phl-compute-10.phl.internal [10.202.2.50])
by mailfout.phl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF0441382C3D;
Fri, 14 Mar 2025 05:32:02 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from phl-mailfrontend-02 ([10.202.2.163])
by phl-compute-10.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 14 Mar 2025 05:32:02 -0400
X-ME-Sender: <xms:kvfTZ7U8yUs0Z4KnQo0T9UGyA0rPXLB4MTxVfzysZE2z7W2YIO3P3g>
<xme:kvfTZzmTC0ZjkIw3RowB_ONhaitIOVtru6KLfZsTAfTta3azjAns-ZeQav2zZmRRa
Xrv_w_AvdungQFefA>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:kvfTZ3Y9H1exuq3_nOkJWp8kQwqs_UcieIgpVIFvPUj_-kbwLyqpn5LdIFE03PyEQVGM>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefvddrtddtgddufedtgeekucetufdoteggodetrf
dotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggv
pdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpih
gvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurheptggguffhjgffvefgkfhfvffosehtqhhmtdhh
tddvnecuhfhrohhmpefujhhorhhsucfrrhhovhhoohhsthcuoehsjhhorhhssehsphhroh
hvohhoshhtrdhnlheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepvdejgeehhfehffefveelkeetkedu
keeuleektddtgffhieekhefgvdfhhefftdffnecuffhomhgrihhnpehgihhthhhusgdrtg
homhdpfhhorhhkrdhosghsvghrvhgvrhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgr
rhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehsjhhorhhssehsphhrohhvohhoshhtrdhnlhdpnhgspg
hrtghpthhtohepvddpmhhouggvpehsmhhtphhouhhtpdhrtghpthhtohepsghithgtohhi
nhguvghvsehgohhoghhlvghgrhhouhhpshdrtghomhdprhgtphhtthhopehgohhoghhlvg
drtghomhesshgthhhilhgusggrtghhrdguvg
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:kvfTZ2WbMGsYETR8UfMGRxikrDgHRkPn1DV3tKID0jJLEHdKghealQ>
<xmx:kvfTZ1msrmIz8XIoIw07FFYJTBslHysrzshZMLh48q1MfwdENSQM9Q>
<xmx:kvfTZzf0KYRSHnn4Pb3AWttou7moEMR8Fyw8ePPNDJF9BZkdV8o1WQ>
<xmx:kvfTZ_H2lz5bPXrKc-SAoxtOaKmkgah7VtclO0cfKMLvZhic3wCkzA>
<xmx:kvfTZ6yLNyIASOe6qqRhNJbCdQ7bq-lByMrJasjBs_zbAx6KVu5mQtk3>
Feedback-ID: ie5e042df:Fastmail
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Fri,
14 Mar 2025 05:32:02 -0400 (EDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.400.131.1.6\))
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Does anyone still need testnet3?
From: Sjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost.nl>
In-Reply-To: <7c28f8e9-d221-4633-8b71-53b4db07fa78@schildbach.de>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2025 10:31:50 +0100
Cc: Andreas Schildbach <google.com@schildbach.de>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <C899E966-6444-41EC-B977-96CFFCBF936A@sprovoost.nl>
References: <9FAA7EEC-BD22-491E-B21B-732AEA15F556@sprovoost.nl>
<7c28f8e9-d221-4633-8b71-53b4db07fa78@schildbach.de>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.400.131.1.6)
X-Original-Sender: sjors@sprovoost.nl
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass
header.i=@sprovoost.nl header.s=fm2 header.b=mOdKn7xD; dkim=pass
header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm1 header.b=xVonLG+v; spf=pass
(google.com: domain of sjors@sprovoost.nl designates 103.168.172.147 as
permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sjors@sprovoost.nl; dmarc=pass (p=NONE
sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=sprovoost.nl
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bitcoindev.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512
List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/post>, <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <https://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bitcoindev+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev
List-Subscribe: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>, <mailto:bitcoindev+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+786775582512+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
<https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>
X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/)
Hi Andreas,
> By the way, testnet3 works great for us (for testing). I consider block s=
torms a feature, because it tests our code in rough conditions. We had plan=
ned to support both testnets in the forseeable future.
>=20
> https://github.com/bitcoinj/bitcoinj/
The "good" news is that testnet4 has very frequent short reorgs. [0]
It appears that people are trying to CPU mine by exploiting the rule that d=
ifficulty drops to 1 after 20 minutes. For every real difficulty block that=
's mined, they instantly publish 5 or 6 blocks, right up against the rule t=
hat blocks can't be more than 2 hours in the future.=20
Another side-effect of that behavior is that on testnet4 MTP is typically i=
n the future, rather than an hour in the past. Combined with the timewarp a=
ttack mitigation rule helped reveal some bugs. [1, 2, 3]
There is a potential counter measure [4] that involves re-orging out those =
low difficulty blocks, though it's just a hackathon proof-of-concept and no=
t likely to be included in Bitcoin Core itself. If anyone were to run it, y=
ou'd get even more reorgs to test :-)
- Sjors
[0] https://fork.observer/?network=3D4
[1] https://github.com/benjamin-wilson/public-pool/commit/4282233d2f11ceecb=
d0d142e8292ccc9c37ea999
[2] https://github.com/stratum-mining/stratum/pull/1325
[3] https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/31600
[4] https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/31117
--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/=
C899E966-6444-41EC-B977-96CFFCBF936A%40sprovoost.nl.
|