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Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2025 19:30:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Javier Mateos <javierpmateos@gmail.com>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: [bitcoindev] Re: [BIP Proposal] Add BIP-0093 (Codex32) as application
 to BIP-0085
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Hi Ben,

Thank you for implementing those changes so promptly. I reviewed the commit=
=20
and the updates address both concerns effectively.

These changes should ensure consistent implementations across different=20
codex32 tooling that uses BIP-85 derivation.

The proposal looks technically sound, follows BIP-85's established pattern=
=20
for applications, and is supported by comprehensive test vectors and a=20
reference implementation.=20

Looking forward to hearing feedback from other reviewers as well.

Best regards,
Javier Mateos

El lunes, 1 de septiembre de 2025 a las 20:15:11 UTC-3, Ben Westgate=20
escribi=C3=B3:

> Hi Javier,
>
> Thank you for your feedback.=20
>
> I added pseudocode for the character value selection. I added a column an=
d=20
> row to the n table to clarify the t=3D=3D0 constraint on n, removed the n=
otes=20
> and in the unshared secret section made the normative statement: 'When th=
reshold=20
> =3D=3D "0", n MUST be *1* and the output is a codex32 secret.'
>
> I=E2=80=99ve updated the PR with these changes and would appreciate your =
review.
>
> Commit:=20
> https://github.com/BenWestgate/bips/commit/fa6e9788bf04d271792ed4ea89a112=
d12284ef02
>
> Best regards, Ben Westgate
>
>
> On Monday, September 1, 2025 at 6:34:39=E2=80=AFAM UTC-5 Javier Mateos wr=
ote:
>
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>> Thank you for your proposal to integrate BIP-0093 (codex32) as an=20
>> application within BIP-0085
>>
>> Reviewing the specification,  I believe I see two areas where we could=
=20
>> improve clarity for implementers:
>>
>> 1) The DRNG=E2=86=925-bit extraction process could benefit from explicit=
=20
>> pseudocode to avoid implementation variations
>> 2) The rule 'threshold =3D=3D 0 implies n =3D=3D 1' currently appears as=
 a note=20
>> but could be clearer as a normative requirement"
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Javier Mateos
>>
>> El domingo, 31 de agosto de 2025 a las 19:29:46 UTC-3, Ben Westgate=20
>> escribi=C3=B3:
>>
>>> Hello bitcoin-dev,
>>>
>>> I=E2=80=99m Ben Westgate, a contributor interested in deterministic wal=
let=20
>>> backups and seed management.
>>>
>>> Per BIP-0002, I propose listing *BIP-0093 (codex32)*=20
>>> <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0093.mediawiki> as an=
=20
>>> application of
>>> *BIP-0085 (Deterministic Entropy from BIP32 Keychains)=20
>>> <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0085.mediawiki>*,=20
>>> similar to the existing BIP39 application. This allows wallets to deriv=
e=20
>>> codex32 backups from BIP-0032 master keys.
>>>
>>> *Summary*=20
>>>
>>>    -=20
>>>   =20
>>>    Application number: 93'
>>>    - Derivation path:=20
>>>    m/83696968'/93'/{hrp}'/{threshold}'/{n}'/{byte_length}'/{id0}'/{id1}=
'/{id2}'/{id3}'/{index}'=20
>>>   =20
>>> Codex32, defined in BIP-93, is a human-readable encoding with=20
>>> checksumming and share indexing designed for SSS backups of BIP-0032 se=
eds.=20
>>> This PR proposes a deterministic way to generate codex32 strings using=
=20
>>> BIP-85.
>>>
>>> *Rationale*=20
>>>
>>>    -=20
>>>   =20
>>>    Mirrors the existing BIP-85 application for BIP-39.
>>>    -=20
>>>   =20
>>>    Codex32 offers error correction, hand verification, identifiers, and=
=20
>>>    secret sharing features compared to BIP-39.
>>>    -=20
>>>   =20
>>>    Adds a standardized way for wallets to generate codex32 backups from=
=20
>>>    BIP-85-derived entropy
>>>    -=20
>>>   =20
>>>    Test vectors and reference implementation are linked to in the PR.
>>>   =20
>>> *Risks and alternatives*=20
>>>
>>>    -=20
>>>   =20
>>>    Wallet adoption of codex32 is still limited, though a draft PR #3265=
2=20
>>>    <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32652?utm_source=3Dchatgpt.=
com>=20
>>>    for importing codex32 strings to Bitcoin Core has support.
>>>    - Codex32 implementers could use the BIP-85 dice application, but=20
>>>    defining a direct application improves interoperability.
>>>
>>> PR:=20
>>> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex=
32=20
>>> <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:code=
x32?utm_source=3Dchatgpt.com>
>>>
>>> Feedback is welcome.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Ben Westgate
>>
>>

--=20
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
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<p>Hi Ben,</p>
<p>Thank you for implementing those changes so promptly. I reviewed the com=
mit and the updates address both concerns effectively.</p>
<p>These changes should ensure consistent implementations across different =
codex32 tooling that uses BIP-85 derivation.</p>
<p>

The proposal looks technically sound, follows BIP-85's established pattern =
for applications, and is supported by comprehensive test vectors and a refe=
rence implementation.

</p>
<p>Looking forward to hearing feedback from other reviewers as well.</p>
<p>Best regards,<br />
Javier Mateos</p><br /><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">El lunes, 1 de septiembre de 2025 a las 20:15:11 UTC-3, Ben=
 Westgate escribi=C3=B3:<br/></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin: 0 0 0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding=
-left: 1ex;"><p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">Hi Javier,</p>
<p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">Thank you for your feedback.=
 </p><p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">I added pseudocode for =
the character value selection. I added a column and row to the n table to c=
larify the t=3D=3D0 constraint on n, removed the notes and in the unshared =
secret section made the normative statement: &#39;When <span>threshold =3D=
=3D &quot;0&quot;</span>, <span>n</span> MUST be <i>1</i> and the output is=
 a codex32 secret.&#39;</p><p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">I=
=E2=80=99ve updated the PR with these changes and would appreciate your rev=
iew.</p><p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">Commit: <a href=3D"h=
ttps://github.com/BenWestgate/bips/commit/fa6e9788bf04d271792ed4ea89a112d12=
284ef02" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https:/=
/www.google.com/url?hl=3Des&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/BenWestgate/bips/com=
mit/fa6e9788bf04d271792ed4ea89a112d12284ef02&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1=
756866362866000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw252CchKtnXnEllFuxepCnn">https://github.com/=
BenWestgate/bips/commit/fa6e9788bf04d271792ed4ea89a112d12284ef02</a></p>
<p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">Best regards,
Ben Westgate</p><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Monday, September 1, 2025 at 6:34:39=E2=80=AFAM UTC-5 Ja=
vier Mateos wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi =
Ben,<br><br>Thank you for your proposal to integrate BIP-0093 (codex32) as =
an application within BIP-0085<br><br>Reviewing the specification, =C2=A0I =
believe I see two areas where we could improve clarity for implementers:<br=
><br>1) The DRNG=E2=86=925-bit extraction process could benefit from explic=
it pseudocode to avoid implementation variations<br>2) The rule &#39;thresh=
old =3D=3D 0 implies n =3D=3D 1&#39; currently appears as a note but could =
be clearer as a normative requirement&quot;<br><br>Best Regards,<br>Javier =
Mateos<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"gmail_a=
ttr">El domingo, 31 de agosto de 2025 a las 19:29:46 UTC-3, Ben Westgate es=
cribi=C3=B3:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><p>Hello =
bitcoin-dev,</p>
<p>I=E2=80=99m Ben Westgate, a contributor interested in deterministic wall=
et backups and seed management.</p>
<p>Per BIP-0002, I propose listing <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bi=
ps/blob/master/bip-0093.mediawiki" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-=
saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Des&amp;q=3Dhttps://githu=
b.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0093.mediawiki&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;us=
t=3D1756866362866000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw1NyNsOpqH2L1lTvoBO-bSy"><strong>BIP-00=
93 (codex32)</strong></a> as an application of<br>
<strong><a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0085.med=
iawiki" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://=
www.google.com/url?hl=3Des&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/mas=
ter/bip-0085.mediawiki&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1756866362866000&amp;us=
g=3DAOvVaw3ZtCxaEj0o6hE5ctEAYxC7">BIP-0085 (Deterministic Entropy from BIP3=
2 Keychains)</a></strong>, similar to the existing BIP39 application. This =
allows
wallets to  derive codex32 backups from BIP-0032 master keys.</p>
<p><span><b>Summary</b></span>
</p><ul><li>
<p>Application number: <span>93&#39;</span></p>
</li><li>
Derivation path: <span>m/83696968&#39;/93&#39;/{hrp}&#39;/{threshold}&#39;/=
{n}&#39;/{byte_length}&#39;/{id0}&#39;/{id1}&#39;/{id2}&#39;/{id3}&#39;/{in=
dex}&#39;</span> <br></li></ul><p>Codex32, defined in BIP-93, is a human-re=
adable encoding with checksumming and share indexing designed for SSS backu=
ps of BIP-0032 seeds. This PR proposes a deterministic way to generate code=
x32 strings using BIP-85.</p>
<p><span><b>Rationale</b></span>
</p><ul><li>
<p>Mirrors the existing BIP-85 application for BIP-39.</p>
</li><li>
<p>Codex32 offers error correction, hand verification, identifiers, and sec=
ret sharing features compared to BIP-39.</p>
</li><li>
<p>Adds a standardized way for wallets to generate codex32 backups from BIP=
-85-derived entropy<br></p>
</li><li>
<p>Test vectors and reference implementation are linked to in the PR.<br></=
p></li></ul><p>
</p><p><b><span>Risks and alternatives</span></b>
</p><ul><li>
<p>Wallet adoption of codex32 is still limited, though a draft <a rel=3D"no=
opener nofollow" href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32652?utm_=
source=3Dchatgpt.com" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www=
.google.com/url?hl=3Des&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/326=
52?utm_source%3Dchatgpt.com&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1756866362866000&a=
mp;usg=3DAOvVaw1gnaUYurTT2TT9FnJsIom6">PR #32652</a> for importing codex32 =
strings to Bitcoin Core has support.</p></li><li>Codex32 implementers could=
 use the BIP-85 dice application, but defining a direct application improve=
s interoperability.</li></ul><p>PR: <a rel=3D"noopener nofollow" href=3D"ht=
tps://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex32?utm=
_source=3Dchatgpt.com" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://ww=
w.google.com/url?hl=3Des&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/ma=
ster...BenWestgate:bips:codex32?utm_source%3Dchatgpt.com&amp;source=3Dgmail=
&amp;ust=3D1756866362866000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw1_SyEDkowJLpdBSkjvdt9V">https:/=
/github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex32</a></p><=
p>Feedback is welcome.</p>Best regards,<br>Ben Westgate</blockquote></div><=
/blockquote></div></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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