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Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2025 13:42:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Aneesh Karve <aneesh.karve@gmail.com>
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: [bitcoindev] Re: [BIP Proposal] Add BIP-0093 (Codex32) as application
 to BIP-0085
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Howdy, a few issues to address for the benefit of future implementers:

   1. The reference implementation should be a PR to the 1.3.0=20
   implementation (I'll help) so we don't confuse the history or introduce=
=20
   compatibility issues. 1.3.0 brings a lot more unit tests, composability,=
=20
   etc. Ethan's original repo <https://github.com/ethankosakovsky/bip85>,=
=20
   which the proposed reference hangs off, has been stagnant for about 4=20
   years, doesn't implement the fixes in 1.3.0, etc.
   2. The usage of the hrp (human readable prefix) is unclear to me.=20
   Traditional path segments are integers and in the examples so is the hrp=
=20
   but it's also defaulted to"ms" and not clear for implementers how the pa=
th=20
   should be represented numerically if at all?
   3. Similarly the role, nature (relative to the SSSS), and programmatic=
=20
   structure of the identifiers (idX) is unclear.

2 & 3 should be easily addressed with small changes to the diff; I'd=20
suggest breaking down and explaining each path segment more clearly.

On Thursday, September 4, 2025 at 9:50:57=E2=80=AFAM UTC-7 Ben Westgate wro=
te:

> Thanks Javier for confirming my updates address your concerns,
> Andrew Poelstra and Russell O'Connor gave feedback on the bip85 codex32=
=20
> application, they:
> - support it for recoverable "uncle-Jim"-style child codex32 strings for=
=20
> forgetful relatives.
> - prefer wallets generate t fresh initial strings by directly encoding=20
> RNG entropy to maintain information-theoretic security.
> - see value in it to stretch entropy when users won=E2=80=99t provide eno=
ugh for=20
> direct encoding but don't trust their hRNG.
> - consider codex32 backups for a bip85 root keys a very good idea.
>
> I welcome further feedback on the proposed before I submit it as a PR:=20
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex32
>
> Best regards, Ben Westgate
>
> On Tuesday, September 2, 2025 at 4:37:20=E2=80=AFAM UTC-5 Javier Mateos w=
rote:
>
> Hi Ben,
>
> Thank you for implementing those changes so promptly. I reviewed the=20
> commit and the updates address both concerns effectively.
>
> These changes should ensure consistent implementations across different=
=20
> codex32 tooling that uses BIP-85 derivation.
>
> The proposal looks technically sound, follows BIP-85's established patter=
n=20
> for applications, and is supported by comprehensive test vectors and a=20
> reference implementation.=20
>
> Looking forward to hearing feedback from other reviewers as well.
>
> Best regards,
> Javier Mateos
>
> El lunes, 1 de septiembre de 2025 a las 20:15:11 UTC-3, Ben Westgate=20
> escribi=C3=B3:
>
> Hi Javier,
>
> Thank you for your feedback.=20
>
> I added pseudocode for the character value selection. I added a column an=
d=20
> row to the n table to clarify the t=3D=3D0 constraint on n, removed the n=
otes=20
> and in the unshared secret section made the normative statement: 'When th=
reshold=20
> =3D=3D "0", n MUST be *1* and the output is a codex32 secret.'
>
> I=E2=80=99ve updated the PR with these changes and would appreciate your =
review.
>
> Commit:=20
> https://github.com/BenWestgate/bips/commit/fa6e9788bf04d271792ed4ea89a112=
d12284ef02
>
> Best regards, Ben Westgate
>
>
> On Monday, September 1, 2025 at 6:34:39=E2=80=AFAM UTC-5 Javier Mateos wr=
ote:
>
> Hi Ben,
>
> Thank you for your proposal to integrate BIP-0093 (codex32) as an=20
> application within BIP-0085
>
> Reviewing the specification,  I believe I see two areas where we could=20
> improve clarity for implementers:
>
> 1) The DRNG=E2=86=925-bit extraction process could benefit from explicit=
=20
> pseudocode to avoid implementation variations
> 2) The rule 'threshold =3D=3D 0 implies n =3D=3D 1' currently appears as =
a note=20
> but could be clearer as a normative requirement"
>
> Best Regards,
> Javier Mateos
>
> El domingo, 31 de agosto de 2025 a las 19:29:46 UTC-3, Ben Westgate=20
> escribi=C3=B3:
>
> Hello bitcoin-dev,
>
> I=E2=80=99m Ben Westgate, a contributor interested in deterministic walle=
t backups=20
> and seed management.
>
> Per BIP-0002, I propose listing *BIP-0093 (codex32)*=20
> <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0093.mediawiki> as an=20
> application of
> *BIP-0085 (Deterministic Entropy from BIP32 Keychains)=20
> <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0085.mediawiki>*,=20
> similar to the existing BIP39 application. This allows wallets to derive=
=20
> codex32 backups from BIP-0032 master keys.
>
> *Summary*=20
>
>    -=20
>   =20
>    Application number: 93'
>    - Derivation path:=20
>    m/83696968'/93'/{hrp}'/{threshold}'/{n}'/{byte_length}'/{id0}'/{id1}'/=
{id2}'/{id3}'/{index}'=20
>   =20
> Codex32, defined in BIP-93, is a human-readable encoding with checksummin=
g=20
> and share indexing designed for SSS backups of BIP-0032 seeds. This PR=20
> proposes a deterministic way to generate codex32 strings using BIP-85.
>
> *Rationale*=20
>
>    -=20
>   =20
>    Mirrors the existing BIP-85 application for BIP-39.
>    -=20
>   =20
>    Codex32 offers error correction, hand verification, identifiers, and=
=20
>    secret sharing features compared to BIP-39.
>    -=20
>   =20
>    Adds a standardized way for wallets to generate codex32 backups from=
=20
>    BIP-85-derived entropy
>    -=20
>   =20
>    Test vectors and reference implementation are linked to in the PR.
>   =20
> *Risks and alternatives*=20
>
>    -=20
>   =20
>    Wallet adoption of codex32 is still limited, though a draft PR #32652=
=20
>    <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32652?utm_source=3Dchatgpt.co=
m>=20
>    for importing codex32 strings to Bitcoin Core has support.
>    - Codex32 implementers could use the BIP-85 dice application, but=20
>    defining a direct application improves interoperability.
>
> PR:=20
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex32=
=20
> <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex3=
2?utm_source=3Dchatgpt.com>
>
> Feedback is welcome.
> Best regards,
> Ben Westgate
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 2, 2025 at 4:37:20=E2=80=AFAM UTC-5 Javier Mateos w=
rote:
>
>> Hi Ben,
>>
>> Thank you for implementing those changes so promptly. I reviewed the=20
>> commit and the updates address both concerns effectively.
>>
>> These changes should ensure consistent implementations across different=
=20
>> codex32 tooling that uses BIP-85 derivation.
>>
>> The proposal looks technically sound, follows BIP-85's established=20
>> pattern for applications, and is supported by comprehensive test vectors=
=20
>> and a reference implementation.=20
>>
>> Looking forward to hearing feedback from other reviewers as well.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Javier Mateos
>>
>> El lunes, 1 de septiembre de 2025 a las 20:15:11 UTC-3, Ben Westgate=20
>> escribi=C3=B3:
>>
>>> Hi Javier,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your feedback.=20
>>>
>>> I added pseudocode for the character value selection. I added a column=
=20
>>> and row to the n table to clarify the t=3D=3D0 constraint on n, removed=
 the=20
>>> notes and in the unshared secret section made the normative statement:=
=20
>>> 'When threshold =3D=3D "0", n MUST be *1* and the output is a codex32=
=20
>>> secret.'
>>>
>>> I=E2=80=99ve updated the PR with these changes and would appreciate you=
r review.
>>>
>>> Commit:=20
>>> https://github.com/BenWestgate/bips/commit/fa6e9788bf04d271792ed4ea89a1=
12d12284ef02
>>>
>>> Best regards, Ben Westgate
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, September 1, 2025 at 6:34:39=E2=80=AFAM UTC-5 Javier Mateos =
wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Ben,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your proposal to integrate BIP-0093 (codex32) as an=20
>>>> application within BIP-0085
>>>>
>>>> Reviewing the specification,  I believe I see two areas where we could=
=20
>>>> improve clarity for implementers:
>>>>
>>>> 1) The DRNG=E2=86=925-bit extraction process could benefit from explic=
it=20
>>>> pseudocode to avoid implementation variations
>>>> 2) The rule 'threshold =3D=3D 0 implies n =3D=3D 1' currently appears =
as a note=20
>>>> but could be clearer as a normative requirement"
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>> Javier Mateos
>>>>
>>>> El domingo, 31 de agosto de 2025 a las 19:29:46 UTC-3, Ben Westgate=20
>>>> escribi=C3=B3:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello bitcoin-dev,
>>>>>
>>>>> I=E2=80=99m Ben Westgate, a contributor interested in deterministic w=
allet=20
>>>>> backups and seed management.
>>>>>
>>>>> Per BIP-0002, I propose listing *BIP-0093 (codex32)*=20
>>>>> <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0093.mediawiki> as=
=20
>>>>> an application of
>>>>> *BIP-0085 (Deterministic Entropy from BIP32 Keychains)=20
>>>>> <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0085.mediawiki>*,=20
>>>>> similar to the existing BIP39 application. This allows wallets to der=
ive=20
>>>>> codex32 backups from BIP-0032 master keys.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Summary*=20
>>>>>
>>>>>    -=20
>>>>>   =20
>>>>>    Application number: 93'
>>>>>    - Derivation path:=20
>>>>>    m/83696968'/93'/{hrp}'/{threshold}'/{n}'/{byte_length}'/{id0}'/{id=
1}'/{id2}'/{id3}'/{index}'=20
>>>>>   =20
>>>>> Codex32, defined in BIP-93, is a human-readable encoding with=20
>>>>> checksumming and share indexing designed for SSS backups of BIP-0032 =
seeds.=20
>>>>> This PR proposes a deterministic way to generate codex32 strings usin=
g=20
>>>>> BIP-85.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Rationale*=20
>>>>>
>>>>>    -=20
>>>>>   =20
>>>>>    Mirrors the existing BIP-85 application for BIP-39.
>>>>>    -=20
>>>>>   =20
>>>>>    Codex32 offers error correction, hand verification, identifiers,=
=20
>>>>>    and secret sharing features compared to BIP-39.
>>>>>    -=20
>>>>>   =20
>>>>>    Adds a standardized way for wallets to generate codex32 backups=20
>>>>>    from BIP-85-derived entropy
>>>>>    -=20
>>>>>   =20
>>>>>    Test vectors and reference implementation are linked to in the PR.
>>>>>   =20
>>>>> *Risks and alternatives*=20
>>>>>
>>>>>    -=20
>>>>>   =20
>>>>>    Wallet adoption of codex32 is still limited, though a draft PR=20
>>>>>    #32652=20
>>>>>    <https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32652?utm_source=3Dchatgp=
t.com>=20
>>>>>    for importing codex32 strings to Bitcoin Core has support.
>>>>>    - Codex32 implementers could use the BIP-85 dice application, but=
=20
>>>>>    defining a direct application improves interoperability.
>>>>>
>>>>> PR:=20
>>>>> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:cod=
ex32=20
>>>>> <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:co=
dex32?utm_source=3Dchatgpt.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> Feedback is welcome.
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Ben Westgate
>>>>
>>>>

--=20
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Howdy, a few issues to address for the benefit of future implementers:<div>=
<ol><li>The reference implementation should be a PR to the 1.3.0 implementa=
tion (I'll help) so we don't confuse the history or introduce compatibility=
 issues. 1.3.0 brings a lot more unit tests, composability, etc. Ethan's <a=
 href=3D"https://github.com/ethankosakovsky/bip85">original repo</a>, which=
 the proposed reference hangs off,=C2=A0has been stagnant for about 4 years=
, doesn't implement the fixes in 1.3.0, etc.</li><li>The usage of the hrp (=
human readable prefix) is unclear to me. Traditional path segments are inte=
gers and in the examples so is the hrp but it's also defaulted to"ms" and n=
ot clear for implementers how the path should be represented numerically if=
 at all?</li><li>Similarly the role, nature (relative to the SSSS), and pro=
grammatic structure of the identifiers (idX) is unclear.</li></ol><div>2 &a=
mp; 3 should be easily addressed with small changes to the diff; I'd sugges=
t breaking down and explaining each path segment more clearly.</div></div><=
div><br /></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"gmail=
_attr">On Thursday, September 4, 2025 at 9:50:57=E2=80=AFAM UTC-7 Ben Westg=
ate wrote:<br/></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 0=
 0 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><d=
iv><p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">Thanks Javier for confirm=
ing my updates address your concerns,</p>Andrew<span> Poelstra</span> and <=
span><span>Russell O&#39;Connor gave feedback on the bip85 codex32 applicat=
ion, they:</span></span></div><div><span><span>- support it for recoverable=
 &quot;uncle-Jim&quot;-style child codex32 strings for forgetful relatives.=
</span></span></div><div><span><span></span></span></div><div></div><div></=
div><div><div>- prefer wallets generate <span><span></span><span aria-hidde=
n=3D"true"><span><span style=3D"min-height:0.6833em"></span><span style=3D"=
margin-right:0.13889em">t</span></span></span></span> fresh initial strings=
 by <span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">directly encoding RNG entropy</spa=
n> to maintain information-theoretic security.</div><div></div></div><div><=
span><span></span></span></div><div><div><span><span>- see value </span></s=
pan><span><span></span></span><span><span>in it </span></span><span style=
=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">to stretch entropy when users won=E2=80=99t provi=
de enough for direct encoding</span><span><span> but don&#39;t trust their =
hRNG</span></span><span><span>.<br></span></span></div><div><div><span><spa=
n>- consider codex32 backups  for a bip85 root keys a very good idea.<br></=
span></span><p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">I welcome furthe=
r feedback on the proposed before I submit it as a PR: <a href=3D"https://g=
ithub.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex32" target=3D=
"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/ur=
l?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestg=
ate:bips:codex32&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1757363253246000&amp;usg=3DAO=
vVaw2zPdEVZRREwQtNidHyIAC9">https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master.=
..BenWestgate:bips:codex32</a></p></div></div><div><p dir=3D"auto" style=3D=
"white-space:pre-wrap">Best regards,
Ben Westgate</p></div><div><span><span><br></span></span></div></div><div><=
div dir=3D"auto">On Tuesday, September 2, 2025 at 4:37:20=E2=80=AFAM UTC-5 =
Javier Mateos wrote:<br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><p>Hi Ben,</p>
<p>Thank you for implementing those changes so promptly. I reviewed the com=
mit and the updates address both concerns effectively.</p>
<p>These changes should ensure consistent implementations across different =
codex32 tooling that uses BIP-85 derivation.</p>
<p>

The proposal looks technically sound, follows BIP-85&#39;s established=20
pattern for applications, and is supported by comprehensive test vectors
 and a reference implementation.

</p>
<p>Looking forward to hearing feedback from other reviewers as well.</p>
<p>Best regards,<br>
Javier Mateos</p><br><div><div dir=3D"auto">El lunes, 1 de septiembre de 20=
25 a las 20:15:11 UTC-3, Ben Westgate escribi=C3=B3:<br></div><blockquote s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad=
ding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">Hi Javier,</p=
>
<p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">Thank you for your feedback.=
 </p><p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">I added pseudocode for =
the character value selection. I added a column and row to the n table to c=
larify the t=3D=3D0 constraint on n, removed the notes and in the unshared =
secret section made the normative statement: &#39;When <span>threshold =3D=
=3D &quot;0&quot;</span>, <span>n</span> MUST be <i>1</i> and the output is=
 a codex32 secret.&#39;</p><p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">I=
=E2=80=99ve updated the PR with these changes and would appreciate your rev=
iew.</p><p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">Commit: <a href=3D"h=
ttps://github.com/BenWestgate/bips/commit/fa6e9788bf04d271792ed4ea89a112d12=
284ef02" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https:/=
/www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/BenWestgate/bips/com=
mit/fa6e9788bf04d271792ed4ea89a112d12284ef02&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1=
757363253246000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw3oNLBjpaslkDW-J_wSwlEh">https://github.com/=
BenWestgate/bips/commit/fa6e9788bf04d271792ed4ea89a112d12284ef02</a></p>
<p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">Best regards,
Ben Westgate</p><br><br><div><div dir=3D"auto">On Monday, September 1, 2025=
 at 6:34:39=E2=80=AFAM UTC-5 Javier Mateos wrote:<br></div><blockquote styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex">Hi Ben,<br><br>Thank you for your proposal to integrate BIP-009=
3 (codex32) as an application within BIP-0085<br><br>Reviewing the specific=
ation, =C2=A0I believe I see two areas where we could improve clarity for i=
mplementers:<br><br>1) The DRNG=E2=86=925-bit extraction process could bene=
fit from explicit pseudocode to avoid implementation variations<br>2) The r=
ule &#39;threshold =3D=3D 0 implies n =3D=3D 1&#39; currently appears as a =
note but could be clearer as a normative requirement&quot;<br><br>Best Rega=
rds,<br>Javier Mateos<br><br><div><div dir=3D"auto">El domingo, 31 de agost=
o de 2025 a las 19:29:46 UTC-3, Ben Westgate escribi=C3=B3:<br></div><block=
quote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex"><p>Hello bitcoin-dev,</p>
<p>I=E2=80=99m Ben Westgate, a contributor interested in deterministic wall=
et backups and seed management.</p>
<p>Per BIP-0002, I propose listing <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bi=
ps/blob/master/bip-0093.mediawiki" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-=
saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://githu=
b.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0093.mediawiki&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;us=
t=3D1757363253246000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw38NHEO_qUB1osUN59HpmfO"><b>BIP-0093 (c=
odex32)</b></a> as an application of<br>
<b><a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0085.mediawik=
i" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.g=
oogle.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/b=
ip-0085.mediawiki&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1757363253246000&amp;usg=3DA=
OvVaw3wX1Phx36HZotRRTW-K9f0">BIP-0085 (Deterministic Entropy from BIP32 Key=
chains)</a></b>, similar to the existing BIP39 application. This allows
wallets to  derive codex32 backups from BIP-0032 master keys.</p>
<p><span><b>Summary</b></span>
</p><ul><li>
<p>Application number: <span>93&#39;</span></p>
</li><li>
Derivation path: <span>m/83696968&#39;/93&#39;/{hrp}&#39;/{threshold}&#39;/=
{n}&#39;/{byte_length}&#39;/{id0}&#39;/{id1}&#39;/{id2}&#39;/{id3}&#39;/{in=
dex}&#39;</span> <br></li></ul><p>Codex32,
 defined in BIP-93, is a human-readable encoding with checksumming and=20
share indexing designed for SSS backups of BIP-0032 seeds. This PR=20
proposes a deterministic way to generate codex32 strings using BIP-85.</p>
<p><span><b>Rationale</b></span>
</p><ul><li>
<p>Mirrors the existing BIP-85 application for BIP-39.</p>
</li><li>
<p>Codex32 offers error correction, hand verification, identifiers, and sec=
ret sharing features compared to BIP-39.</p>
</li><li>
<p>Adds a standardized way for wallets to generate codex32 backups from BIP=
-85-derived entropy<br></p>
</li><li>
<p>Test vectors and reference implementation are linked to in the PR.<br></=
p></li></ul><p>
</p><p><b><span>Risks and alternatives</span></b>
</p><ul><li>
<p>Wallet adoption of codex32 is still limited, though a draft <a rel=3D"no=
opener nofollow" href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32652?utm_=
source=3Dchatgpt.com" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www=
.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/326=
52?utm_source%3Dchatgpt.com&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1757363253247000&a=
mp;usg=3DAOvVaw2MAx3JyQlQkGIIQ6YSvUKS">PR #32652</a> for importing codex32 =
strings to Bitcoin Core has support.</p></li><li>Codex32 implementers could=
 use the BIP-85 dice application, but defining a direct application improve=
s interoperability.</li></ul><p>PR: <a rel=3D"noopener nofollow" href=3D"ht=
tps://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex32?utm=
_source=3Dchatgpt.com" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://ww=
w.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/ma=
ster...BenWestgate:bips:codex32?utm_source%3Dchatgpt.com&amp;source=3Dgmail=
&amp;ust=3D1757363253247000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw1HeUjBlErfv9_LHxJ51zsR">https:/=
/github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex32</a></p><=
p>Feedback is welcome.</p>Best regards,<br>Ben Westgate</blockquote></div><=
/blockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tuesday, Septemb=
er 2, 2025 at 4:37:20=E2=80=AFAM UTC-5 Javier Mateos wrote:<br></div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol=
id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><p>Hi Ben,</p>
<p>Thank you for implementing those changes so promptly. I reviewed the com=
mit and the updates address both concerns effectively.</p>
<p>These changes should ensure consistent implementations across different =
codex32 tooling that uses BIP-85 derivation.</p>
<p>

The proposal looks technically sound, follows BIP-85&#39;s established patt=
ern for applications, and is supported by comprehensive test vectors and a =
reference implementation.

</p>
<p>Looking forward to hearing feedback from other reviewers as well.</p>
<p>Best regards,<br>
Javier Mateos</p><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"=
gmail_attr">El lunes, 1 de septiembre de 2025 a las 20:15:11 UTC-3, Ben Wes=
tgate escribi=C3=B3:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><=
p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">Hi Javier,</p>
<p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">Thank you for your feedback.=
 </p><p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">I added pseudocode for =
the character value selection. I added a column and row to the n table to c=
larify the t=3D=3D0 constraint on n, removed the notes and in the unshared =
secret section made the normative statement: &#39;When <span>threshold =3D=
=3D &quot;0&quot;</span>, <span>n</span> MUST be <i>1</i> and the output is=
 a codex32 secret.&#39;</p><p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">I=
=E2=80=99ve updated the PR with these changes and would appreciate your rev=
iew.</p><p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">Commit: <a href=3D"h=
ttps://github.com/BenWestgate/bips/commit/fa6e9788bf04d271792ed4ea89a112d12=
284ef02" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https:/=
/www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/BenWestgate/bips/com=
mit/fa6e9788bf04d271792ed4ea89a112d12284ef02&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1=
757363253247000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw2vaKV11d-gZhH-XAJIcMT5">https://github.com/=
BenWestgate/bips/commit/fa6e9788bf04d271792ed4ea89a112d12284ef02</a></p>
<p dir=3D"auto" style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">Best regards,
Ben Westgate</p><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Monday, September 1, 2025 at 6:34:39=E2=80=AFAM UTC-5 Ja=
vier Mateos wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi =
Ben,<br><br>Thank you for your proposal to integrate BIP-0093 (codex32) as =
an application within BIP-0085<br><br>Reviewing the specification, =C2=A0I =
believe I see two areas where we could improve clarity for implementers:<br=
><br>1) The DRNG=E2=86=925-bit extraction process could benefit from explic=
it pseudocode to avoid implementation variations<br>2) The rule &#39;thresh=
old =3D=3D 0 implies n =3D=3D 1&#39; currently appears as a note but could =
be clearer as a normative requirement&quot;<br><br>Best Regards,<br>Javier =
Mateos<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"gmail_a=
ttr">El domingo, 31 de agosto de 2025 a las 19:29:46 UTC-3, Ben Westgate es=
cribi=C3=B3:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><p>Hello =
bitcoin-dev,</p>
<p>I=E2=80=99m Ben Westgate, a contributor interested in deterministic wall=
et backups and seed management.</p>
<p>Per BIP-0002, I propose listing <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bi=
ps/blob/master/bip-0093.mediawiki" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-=
saferedirecturl=3D"https://www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://githu=
b.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0093.mediawiki&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;us=
t=3D1757363253247000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw2gjoHHIrkbwX8F-p-1qbtF"><strong>BIP-00=
93 (codex32)</strong></a> as an application of<br>
<strong><a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0085.med=
iawiki" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://=
www.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/mas=
ter/bip-0085.mediawiki&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1757363253247000&amp;us=
g=3DAOvVaw0DnR4YVUlvcrWRlwIJfBvZ">BIP-0085 (Deterministic Entropy from BIP3=
2 Keychains)</a></strong>, similar to the existing BIP39 application. This =
allows
wallets to  derive codex32 backups from BIP-0032 master keys.</p>
<p><span><b>Summary</b></span>
</p><ul><li>
<p>Application number: <span>93&#39;</span></p>
</li><li>
Derivation path: <span>m/83696968&#39;/93&#39;/{hrp}&#39;/{threshold}&#39;/=
{n}&#39;/{byte_length}&#39;/{id0}&#39;/{id1}&#39;/{id2}&#39;/{id3}&#39;/{in=
dex}&#39;</span> <br></li></ul><p>Codex32, defined in BIP-93, is a human-re=
adable encoding with checksumming and share indexing designed for SSS backu=
ps of BIP-0032 seeds. This PR proposes a deterministic way to generate code=
x32 strings using BIP-85.</p>
<p><span><b>Rationale</b></span>
</p><ul><li>
<p>Mirrors the existing BIP-85 application for BIP-39.</p>
</li><li>
<p>Codex32 offers error correction, hand verification, identifiers, and sec=
ret sharing features compared to BIP-39.</p>
</li><li>
<p>Adds a standardized way for wallets to generate codex32 backups from BIP=
-85-derived entropy<br></p>
</li><li>
<p>Test vectors and reference implementation are linked to in the PR.<br></=
p></li></ul><p>
</p><p><b><span>Risks and alternatives</span></b>
</p><ul><li>
<p>Wallet adoption of codex32 is still limited, though a draft <a rel=3D"no=
opener nofollow" href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32652?utm_=
source=3Dchatgpt.com" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://www=
.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/326=
52?utm_source%3Dchatgpt.com&amp;source=3Dgmail&amp;ust=3D1757363253247000&a=
mp;usg=3DAOvVaw2MAx3JyQlQkGIIQ6YSvUKS">PR #32652</a> for importing codex32 =
strings to Bitcoin Core has support.</p></li><li>Codex32 implementers could=
 use the BIP-85 dice application, but defining a direct application improve=
s interoperability.</li></ul><p>PR: <a rel=3D"noopener nofollow" href=3D"ht=
tps://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex32?utm=
_source=3Dchatgpt.com" target=3D"_blank" data-saferedirecturl=3D"https://ww=
w.google.com/url?hl=3Den&amp;q=3Dhttps://github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/ma=
ster...BenWestgate:bips:codex32?utm_source%3Dchatgpt.com&amp;source=3Dgmail=
&amp;ust=3D1757363253247000&amp;usg=3DAOvVaw1HeUjBlErfv9_LHxJ51zsR">https:/=
/github.com/bitcoin/bips/compare/master...BenWestgate:bips:codex32</a></p><=
p>Feedback is welcome.</p>Best regards,<br>Ben Westgate</blockquote></div><=
/blockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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