summaryrefslogtreecommitdiff
path: root/87/5e14ad8d11b5eb588d60f2bf53ef3f72c329d2
blob: 91ae37b39389719c1d8db5bb663b3f478c8e7d99 (plain)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
Delivery-date: Mon, 02 Jun 2025 14:12:25 -0700
Received: from mail-oi1-f184.google.com ([209.85.167.184])
	by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps  (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
	(Exim 4.94.2)
	(envelope-from <bitcoindev+bncBD2IRYOX4AFRBL5H7DAQMGQEM225N4I@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1uMCSH-0007DN-2Y
	for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Mon, 02 Jun 2025 14:12:25 -0700
Received: by mail-oi1-f184.google.com with SMTP id 5614622812f47-4033c872b60sf4144555b6e.2
        for <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>; Mon, 02 Jun 2025 14:12:25 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1748898739; cv=pass;
        d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
        b=VIxe8NFm6aDfqjIkUfuae6FYAZJ70zUblf8CyUrz9X6BdDz8t48O+i1OaNWfXvZmBY
         aGAJmgGtZNvUkSzWrGMB4h+hB1xJrRuvW+Ion9B6gYIRXOSyZLOUlmHL1MUdtZyBQgv9
         q3aOSkpwp9yodIBq2ib0noMzFSMBqfOFnN2Uod8hMrjL0JvHjGgCNsmWj5zArtdZVdJp
         Tp+dV0fGMY/DXnkRzxeRi3PsrA/gSzguaI3CDjXgWVTaIk4cPebUph4X8lu3ol9bVnKQ
         Mc4H7bv4vPSU4D5UCKVG+cKDDfkSJMZitpPhAA6xvQwgk6EfnggLwpsV9I3kJCNInOU4
         kGTg==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
        h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
         :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:content-language:to:subject:from
         :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:sender:dkim-signature
         :dkim-signature;
        bh=x/cgXAOIUbQEFsimA7vH4vgpNniK+EKCM+1T17Cxa24=;
        fh=8VbUavqbvkEzyK17FDHxP6iV7s4snRVJMCz2YajJ5H0=;
        b=UwIfeYo4cK/OU6CfZYC2m3zMirUNJoaywMkAOR6prCs12aAU+ycSChS4/XYRpzbP2V
         /Ny49BirCAehTE42uvoqHevpJ6hxRmv56841A10GGgl66jX+fQd9XJY066cSZujGxTZy
         AENS2BCb7m1QF4s99gnkymY055I2m8qpugpSDcSK085uDiZU+PrxmfAFCWgY0n1C1ELu
         e+ChYVMnYoVvzcS7s0IFJiGw16qmFZC32YGeCjt2Wq7VnGZbh/tO6E3mkyYtRX697NGQ
         +HNIIpbohL+QaqBX/B3pMvsVzVW9NiWvZFg+LUy9zFPAGLRaLLc/AptBBCPti3mVJEJ3
         1VWg==;
        darn=gnusha.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com;
       dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=XJSwq7OS;
       spf=pass (google.com: domain of lwandersleb@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::433 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lwandersleb@gmail.com;
       dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com;
       dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1748898739; x=1749503539; darn=gnusha.org;
        h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
         :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
         :x-original-sender:content-language:to:subject:from:user-agent
         :mime-version:date:message-id:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date
         :message-id:reply-to;
        bh=x/cgXAOIUbQEFsimA7vH4vgpNniK+EKCM+1T17Cxa24=;
        b=LiuzcDx6dHH7/hI3DcDExH8uxHBRhAeSFFK5iO46JDj7rpvCDJKIjzkXO+VzvRRHi/
         eslVa6Db152pkECHs9EQAOdpPG3Wt9YtW15PercpfcyX+WmSX0UBjEal/dRPaAIjuxjO
         z3PJFlhXFvlcdVrlcM6yVlGRf7Pjg9WIDtEoKaYa5W4Gqhl6iC9aVQIpV/tHEeksmEpu
         I8lOwaeohZspMRMy3xH9LMZSSrJXx/OydtqZaOdZaM+ItMC23eXQtjccDJ807IiQ18ZQ
         8aMdu+9H1MHy2AiSEwT42yniq5fVZB2PghlGwmFFRBSuQVYUlNAdJqX+B5E+NDHuulhG
         4bGw==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1748898739; x=1749503539; darn=gnusha.org;
        h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
         :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
         :x-original-sender:content-language:to:subject:from:user-agent
         :mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id
         :reply-to;
        bh=x/cgXAOIUbQEFsimA7vH4vgpNniK+EKCM+1T17Cxa24=;
        b=UkgPGMRmJO+21UIag7Ju4LoLqXHdnLawMLLhMcwnydSIk1ijrIwqWjPZLFolTL12iz
         fqO7txrFFxCAXV6ktqMsjxU/e6MgLBDv6/VNWHTvAIq9YHT0kDbk4oazpEPajExfrNdM
         Tr8rrqe9FofdF6HZ644lDYgmbGVQApmusCsfCPjFGLZ5s2fPkxzIKPsPhjrg3zqU0EqK
         jiaxILjD8yW4xegXl1MrSQjie2YJAM5sBSSt7BTHMxwlmejbfwH2erkZh7R3R0VDGlIp
         t7KxgxfncpmYWAliqUaMRSgRx3gkyLQN3vS5mt3Q3RQiWzlGHPQJ56X/1fomb9jJZEJ1
         vGvA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1748898739; x=1749503539;
        h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
         :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
         :x-original-sender:content-language:to:subject:from:user-agent
         :mime-version:date:message-id:x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state:sender
         :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
        bh=x/cgXAOIUbQEFsimA7vH4vgpNniK+EKCM+1T17Cxa24=;
        b=n/hV84D0AwZU61A8bTmPgSM6d0W2T64ViPQHQl7NnbXQDzYpIJXcgpBnu+qC8Qtfpv
         IIy4Y/qyWM++PAw8D2vE6R6AKQHNR7edZ5zT6posJxFswq+kmwFIKwIzbf6HWlGHVfBZ
         85KrEFQe0TfbpaFyWm0G9X/xz/llVcR6rrQszy9kCJbpyKjhRp6yaZgogoTYflbgQWrj
         fBgE/MvhnmYjQcOz5kxqhnoboxFcrMYStxudyjTa4mL+2rCYAV3IOiDV1ZOmnxDvXl6+
         ydfEngHNeWqR146Elg+S5YABKyRDqJMHXDclGd8fNFLmEpdFKjrrbHJvy8dPZEkIQMtj
         uwMw==
Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCXY0XI6lkLSAH6q8os7qg+/nHb7otCTBouFfNEsopPfi30yoYx4FGFQHlEWNeGGT0o33di4/tDo5aWE@gnusha.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yzw3fOxPBW0OKwtd0U40HNBbQHL87ZoCOMtHlaQm+5lJK7oaGeE
	fPV7O0hxFKzbj86FD6WYhVh+P1BhPZxSOtHILuyxTvjQMkQRlUsVZM07
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGUUrn+GidktT2MuKEwIfqcD7Qn7x9JpvK0PXsGhKkDRU7Qhugk9rIKbdHp3Fs6t1a6oWFjGg==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:3319:b0:406:7186:5100 with SMTP id 5614622812f47-407a65dd795mr6176842b6e.22.1748898739033;
        Mon, 02 Jun 2025 14:12:19 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h=AZMbMZejITKMIFgM3GXt5Bf5bCsiwXW60B2dRj4zEyxQ14k2Tw==
Received: by 2002:a4a:e381:0:b0:60e:f246:1b76 with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-60ef2461bc0ls327249eaf.0.-pod-prod-08-us;
 Mon, 02 Jun 2025 14:12:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:4492:b0:3fa:3a0:137b with SMTP id 5614622812f47-407a66115a4mr6420078b6e.29.1748898735488;
        Mon, 02 Jun 2025 14:12:15 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 2002:a05:6504:1294:b0:2b1:9db7:3101 with SMTP id a1c4a302cd1d6-2b1a1c1d5f4msc7a;
        Mon, 2 Jun 2025 14:06:40 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a2e:bc29:0:b0:32a:651c:9af3 with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-32a90804ccdmr41019291fa.37.1748898398077;
        Mon, 02 Jun 2025 14:06:38 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1748898398; cv=none;
        d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
        b=gEnhYmNoQZ4gNsY5YjPZSl9JK3FhSqk6s6jV6aeqWmshwztlAW6ng/xD8GXiazBdmp
         ZlX6Ni1/C/aqxv/+FYsOvtMs5xyBcCFv1PPO0CSvMO1OAtj1JM7Phy44hUDrLSCAa2q7
         NaCHbSbHaZ3atSYxZJtafDsr3WqgIXTDBa3kOdV/xuclZSOBmp7Ic+RykXTX2A31vuvE
         NipGDrLzT7HmkMBc/fsioilydsSOjGmq9qmaxQ3q20zQXmCVv8rU5nHebvzZCWI+ZrTm
         FY5coQZkXOR7CqGXySs2SqvsKXG1gUM6dZCPH/eyn9YnLow9n2mm5/t8DZzDSI0/w/zx
         FCNw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
        h=content-transfer-encoding:content-language:to:subject:from
         :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:dkim-signature;
        bh=blaJiqs/ZlkeyD/MKH+bSCwviZD37JLLtJ4q+eP7umM=;
        fh=DMP0F9ULS1guKiqimntQRCN8ZraraesEgQuVcn7F0Z0=;
        b=bQMttO5yQziycChD+KKYRADDQ0N4lurJ6nZjeefqNij/IZr/pXLmVcS+VzdXl//bbj
         XglzcAt0VrRjQlpoTGhPVYSoW+bhBl2OLGwOknHAXLiKIgEddJQ8mhEo+Zd/Ui5UOVZq
         3w0xfVrBxjhPHoiGzPjiGPJelVLDpg9W61pPe8DoZMhSV+E13lZrDhNlcG3fe8CSVm4V
         ALVH6vMEdB2OL+EUrh8DyQrsaAJbB0l3+vCxW7WTWNbfvvq8PBF7Ni/taETjM1JEoMHi
         fHMu5i6/UlrcXmLyUZEPL+FafQWip+CwhabRt5lYkxJgnUT27V39R0omN1z5cyJU1Fy0
         p9UA==;
        dara=google.com
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com;
       dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=XJSwq7OS;
       spf=pass (google.com: domain of lwandersleb@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::433 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lwandersleb@gmail.com;
       dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com;
       dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
Received: from mail-wr1-x433.google.com (mail-wr1-x433.google.com. [2a00:1450:4864:20::433])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 38308e7fff4ca-32a85bb2e5bsi2457491fa.3.2025.06.02.14.06.38
        for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
        (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
        Mon, 02 Jun 2025 14:06:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lwandersleb@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::433 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::433;
Received: by mail-wr1-x433.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-3a3771c0f8cso2985247f8f.3
        for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>; Mon, 02 Jun 2025 14:06:38 -0700 (PDT)
X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncus95flg4nTiFQpwcVjl8hiKweHCUDd0NUu3blmxnIv5SFdEoOdxLleT9nHfwe
	LfJrOsom3xtIonMW4IBKMGvfad7LOc9CR25iYY2fX/2QjprzwUJheHtLypx35vyON3B1zzOWEop
	RfOy5LRH08mtvU3rYG8KkpfXH7Z/xyXZGeUtWMqlMC0s1CP4bTBRALWuFAQs3d9fb6eSGrFIfjy
	wcpW2gzVjOth8JC5eF20xKibd1w3/T80AbI+1rTCHPhG/oxbwad6elqvN4QzQ40KFWYkjS4dG8d
	KgFJuo9WfYl+iRwz65Amai8MAQt0b/UpLhmxc8NsWcXFQpx5SItFw+cD1mr/BPA+Vz3Mhavj+wI
	3zl/TITOU0RQLqdpFKyNl2wMKghvE
X-Received: by 2002:a5d:5f56:0:b0:3a4:e423:4080 with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-3a4f89a5b17mr10777763f8f.4.1748898396786;
        Mon, 02 Jun 2025 14:06:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPV6:2a02:2455:180a:7500:26ce:1d54:62ee:8582? ([2a02:2455:180a:7500:26ce:1d54:62ee:8582])
        by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-3a4efe73f22sm15872488f8f.43.2025.06.02.14.06.36
        for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
        (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
        Mon, 02 Jun 2025 14:06:36 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <2c3b7e1c-95dd-4773-a88f-f2cdb37acf4a@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2025 23:06:35 +0200
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
From: Leo Wandersleb <lwandersleb@gmail.com>
Subject: [bitcoindev] Pre-emptive commit/reveal for quantum-safe migration (poison-pill)
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed
X-Original-Sender: LWandersleb@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com;       dkim=pass
 header.i=@gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=XJSwq7OS;       spf=pass
 (google.com: domain of lwandersleb@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::433
 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lwandersleb@gmail.com;       dmarc=pass
 (p=NONE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com;       dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bitcoindev.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512
List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/post>, <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <https://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bitcoindev+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev
List-Subscribe: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>, <mailto:bitcoindev+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+786775582512+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
 <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>
X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/)

Hi all,

I'd like to propose a variant of the commit/reveal schemes being discussed for 
quantum resistance, but with a different goal and timeline. This builds on ideas 
from the recent thread "Post-Quantum commit / reveal Fawkescoin variant as a 
soft fork" but targets a different use case.

## The Problem

Current discussions focus on emergency reactive measures - what to do *after* 
quantum computers arrive. But this leaves users in a difficult position:

1. They can't prove ownership of their coins without revealing pubkeys (and thus 
becoming vulnerable)
2. Moving coins to quantum-safe addresses early reveals which addresses are 
active vs. abandoned
3. There's no way to prepare for migration without exposing yourself

## Pre-emptive Commit/Reveal

What if users could commit *today* to future migration transactions, without 
revealing which UTXOs they control?

The idea is simple:
- Users create and sign transactions moving their funds to quantum-safe addresses
- They compute a Merkle tree of all these transactions
- They publish only the root hash (e.g., in an OP_RETURN)
- This can be done today, with no consensus changes

If/when quantum computers become a threat:
- We soft fork to require at least n confirmations on quantum vulnerable 
transactions
- Transactions work as always but can't be spent for n blocks
- If attacked, the victim can reveal the commitment to execute the recovery 
transaction

## Key Advantages

1. **No consensus changes needed now** - Users can start protecting themselves 
immediately
2. **Privacy preserved** - The commitment reveals nothing about which UTXOs you own
3. **Efficient** - One hash can commit to migrations for all your UTXOs or even 
the UTXOs of several users
4. **Flexible** - Works whether or not a quantum computer ever actually appears

## Differences from Tadge's Proposal

While Tadge's proposal solves post-quantum spending where any pubkey reveal is 
dangerous, this proposal is about preparation:

- **Timing**: Pre-quantum (can start now) vs. post-quantum (activates after QC 
appears)
- **Scope**: Migration to quantum-safe addresses for all address types in the 
worst case vs. general spending of hashed pubkeys

Both use the same cryptographic primitive (commit/reveal) but for different 
phases of the quantum transition.

This approach lets users protect their funds without waiting for consensus 
changes or revealing their holdings. It's a "poison pill" against quantum 
attackers - they might steal coins, but pre-committed owners can reclaim them.

Would love to hear thoughts on this approach.

Leo Wandersleb

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/2c3b7e1c-95dd-4773-a88f-f2cdb37acf4a%40gmail.com.