1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
|
Return-Path: <alicexbt@protonmail.com>
Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::133])
by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E14FC0032
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Sun, 5 Nov 2023 18:43:47 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E67DB4012D
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Sun, 5 Nov 2023 18:43:46 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org E67DB4012D
Authentication-Results: smtp2.osuosl.org;
dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=protonmail.com header.i=@protonmail.com
header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=protonmail3 header.b=JF9AqzS7
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.399
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5
tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001,
RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001]
autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id aq4rZqrkQIhp
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Sun, 5 Nov 2023 18:43:44 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail-0301.mail-europe.com (mail-0301.mail-europe.com
[188.165.51.139])
by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 027E2400D6
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Sun, 5 Nov 2023 18:43:43 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org 027E2400D6
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com;
s=protonmail3; t=1699209814; x=1699469014;
bh=ROjT7rYyCkEx21BDfKZqww+8aKqXjAF+KDTDzkxzoWU=;
h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:
Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID:
Message-ID:BIMI-Selector;
b=JF9AqzS7n3k94V6yXEs9MeDqa8YG4VCBHGNUfIqEe2IKVqf+ffc++0puRx9Ex1+QL
r3BE+qUKkkDxxDqvuNzIidwBFJXfOcNJ4Zu1l31MZIW1m+3FBEom51FLhTpullYBlp
3SZkSG7W11v8vLW4IUmwixek/xsfC5Gg48X5xmTDbeRCsdm7ssV8dKLF8dL/mzd7N+
q+Qjd3kmAs4hJAJIs5cE3abURdIPyNXJEKsmYPerFkv3hk3XkVW9nk789nz3BtWXEr
uq79L6krQ9zVcmEdXG/BCk3HJbuSM6IRjyzclNP6v6qk04cwTZLbqSgR61xAJcOGIc
eVQwvEBx4ckBg==
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2023 18:43:18 +0000
To: Erik Aronesty <erik@q32.com>
From: alicexbt <alicexbt@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <GX-kBpIk-vgpoFHURyyNZTdxcfvNhMx9cSnKgBB6SRz6lggoivBTqt81IwZSAjFSPv-nVKE0_ZX6pzEGFS7bZRoJI6TXqmCxwU6HI28AnfE=@protonmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAJowKgJXxS3L=pQR=jhSXBgdDR9k5mwPyKhKkuFESw5_qOgdrQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJowKgJXxS3L=pQR=jhSXBgdDR9k5mwPyKhKkuFESw5_qOgdrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Feedback-ID: 40602938:user:proton
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 05 Nov 2023 23:29:59 +0000
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] ossification and misaligned incentive concerns
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2023 18:43:47 -0000
Hi Erik,
> currently, there are providers of anonymity services, scaling services, c=
ustody, and other services layered on top of bitcoin using trust-based and =
federated models.
>=20
> as bitcoin becomes more popular, these service providers have increasingl=
y had a louder "voice" in development and maintenance of the protocol
> is anyone else worried about this?
Yes. I share your concerns about the growing influence of centralized servi=
ce providers on Bitcoin's development. Although there is nothing much we ca=
n do about it especially=20
when trusted, centralized, custodial, federated etc. projects keep getting =
funded. Only solution is to build better things and be positive.
Example: Everyone is aware of the risks involved in a project that takes cu=
stody of funds, provide privacy without KYC. There are several examples fro=
m past in which similar=20
projects with some volume ended up getting shutdown by governments. With [c=
ovenants and statechains][0], it is possible to use bitcoin (p2p ecash) wit=
h privacy and involves no custody.
There are other [benefits][1] of payment pools (w/ covenants) in terms of p=
rivacy. Hopefully we agree to do soft fork in next year or so.
[0]: https://github.com/AdamISZ/pathcoin-poc
[1]: https://gnusha.org/bitcoin-wizards/2019-05-21.log
/dev/fd0
floppy disk guy
Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
------- Original Message -------
On Friday, November 3rd, 2023 at 11:54 PM, Erik Aronesty via bitcoin-dev <b=
itcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
> currently, there are providers of anonymity services, scaling services, c=
ustody, and other services layered on top of bitcoin using trust-based and =
federated models.
>=20
> as bitcoin becomes more popular, these service providers have increasingl=
y had a louder "voice" in development and maintenance of the protocol
>=20
> holders generally want these features
>=20
> but service providers have an incentive to maintain a "moat" around their=
services
>=20
> in summary, making privacy, scaling and vaulting "hard" for regular users=
, keeping it off-chain and federated... is now incentivised among a vocal, =
but highly technical, minority
>=20
> is anyone else worried about this?
|
