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From: Olaoluwa Osuntokun <laolu32@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2022 14:21:14 -0400
Message-ID: <CAO3Pvs_MPLWb+8HMzJ4XgVvh_wzUgPpGpnciNCEyryDdUZi6YQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Bram Cohen <bram@chia.net>, 
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000021e88305dc650327"
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taro: A Taproot Asset Representation Overlay
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Hi Bram,

> The witnesses for transactions need to be put into Bitcoin transactions
> even though the Bitcoin layer doesn't understand them

Is this related to Ruben's comment about invalid state transitions
(published in the base chain) leading to burned assets? In the past, I've
considered using the existing annex field in taproot transactions to
implement partial reveal of certain data. However, today bitcoind treats
annex usage as non-standard, so those transactions may be harder to relay.
IMO this is a great place to add minimal extra data, as it doesn't bleed
over into
the scripting layer (via OP_DROP usages) and since Bitcoin-level signatures
also include this field in the sighash, the sigs serve to further
authenticate this data.

Future op codes that allow Scripts to push annex data onto the stack could
also be used to further bind higher level protocols while still allowing the
base Bitcoin consensus rules to not have to be explicitly aware of them.

> Taro issuance is limited to a single event rather than potentially
> multiple events over time subject to special per-asset rules.

There's a provision in the protocol that lets a party issuing assets to
specify a special public key which is then tweaked with the genesis
outpoint, similar to the way the asset IDs are generated. If this key is
specified, then future issuance, if signed off by that key, will serve to
associate assets of discrete IDs under a single identifier. This feature
allows assets issued in multiple tranches to be fungible with one another.

> but I am puzzled by the announcement saying Taro assets are 'analogous
> with' colored coins. Taro assets are straightforwardly and unambiguously
> colored coins and that isn't something to be ashamed of.

We've shied away from using the "colored coins' terminology as at this point
in the game it's pretty dated: new developers that joined in the last 3
years or so have likely never heard of that term. Explaining the term also
requires one to define "coin coloring", and what that actually means, etc,
etc. IMO it's simpler to just use the familiar and widely used asset
issuance/minting terminology.

-- Laolu

On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 9:10 PM Bram Cohen via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> From: Olaoluwa Osuntokun <laolu32@gmail.com>
>
>>
>> > Furthermore, the Taro script is not enforced by Bitcoin, meaning those
>> who
>> > control the Bitcoin script can always choose to ignore the Taro script
>> and
>> > destroy the Taro assets as a result.
>>
>> This is correct, as a result in most contexts, an incentive exists for the
>> holder of an asset to observe the Taro validation rules as otherwise,
>> their
>> assets are burnt in the process from the PoV of asset verifiers. In the
>> single
>> party case things are pretty straight forward, but more care needs to be
>> taken
>> in cases where one attempts to express partial application and permits
>> anyone
>> to spend a UTXO in question.
>>
>> By strongly binding all assets to Bitcoin UTXOs, we resolve issues related
>> to
>> double spending or duplicate assets, but needs to mind the fact that
>> assets
>> can
>> be burnt if a user doesn't supply a valid witness. There're likely ways to
>> get
>> around this by lessening the binding to Bitcoin UTXO's, but then the
>> system
>> would need to be able to collect, retain and order all the set of possible
>> spends, essentially requiring a parallel network. The core of the system
>> as
>> it
>> stands today is pretty simple (which was an explicit design goal to avoid
>> getting forever distracted by the large design space), with a minimal
>> implementation being relatively compact given all the Bitcoin
>> context/design
>> re-use.
>>
>
> The TARO set of tradeoffs is fairly coherent but is subject to certain
> limitations (modulo my understanding of it being off):
>
> The witnesses for transactions need to be put into Bitcoin transactions
> even though the Bitcoin layer doesn't understand them
>
> There needs to be a constraint on Taro transactions which is understood by
> the Bitcoin layer (which often/usually happens naturally because there's a
> user signature but sometimes doesn't. It's a limitation)
>
> Multiple Taro coins can't consolidate their value into a single output
> because they only support a single linear history
>
> Taro issuance is limited to a single event rather than potentially
> multiple events over time subject to special per-asset rules.
>
> This seems like a fairly logical approach (although my understanding of
> the limitations/tradeoffs could be wrong, especially with regards to
> consolidation). There's nothing wrong with a system having well documented
> limitations, but I am puzzled by the announcement saying Taro assets are
> 'analogous with' colored coins. Taro assets are straightforwardly and
> unambiguously colored coins and that isn't something to be ashamed of.
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Bram, <br><br>&gt; The witnesses for t=
ransactions need to be put into Bitcoin transactions<br>&gt; even though th=
e Bitcoin layer doesn&#39;t understand them<br><br>Is this related to Ruben=
&#39;s comment about invalid state transitions<br>(published in the base ch=
ain) leading to burned assets? In the past, I&#39;ve<br>considered using th=
e existing annex field in taproot transactions to<br>implement partial reve=
al of certain data. However, today bitcoind treats<br>annex usage as non-st=
andard, so those transactions may be harder to relay.<br>IMO this is a grea=
t place to add minimal extra data, as it doesn&#39;t bleed over into<br>the=
 scripting layer (via OP_DROP usages) and since Bitcoin-level signatures<br=
>also include this field in the sighash, the sigs serve to further<br>authe=
nticate this data.<br><br>Future op codes that allow Scripts to push annex =
data onto the stack could<br>also be used to further bind higher level prot=
ocols while still allowing the<br>base Bitcoin consensus rules to not have =
to be explicitly aware of them.<br><br>&gt; Taro issuance is limited to a s=
ingle event rather than potentially<br>&gt; multiple events over time subje=
ct to special per-asset rules.<br><br>There&#39;s a provision in the protoc=
ol that lets a party issuing assets to<br>specify a special public key whic=
h is then tweaked with the genesis<br>outpoint, similar to the way the asse=
t IDs are generated. If this key is<br>specified, then future issuance, if =
signed off by that key, will serve to<br>associate assets of discrete IDs u=
nder a single identifier. This feature<br>allows assets issued in multiple =
tranches to be fungible with one another.<br><br>&gt; but I am puzzled by t=
he announcement saying Taro assets are &#39;analogous<br>&gt; with&#39; col=
ored coins. Taro assets are straightforwardly and unambiguously<br>&gt; col=
ored coins and that isn&#39;t something to be ashamed of.<br><br>We&#39;ve =
shied away from using the &quot;colored coins&#39; terminology as at this p=
oint<br>in the game it&#39;s pretty dated: new developers that joined in th=
e last 3<br>years or so have likely never heard of that term. Explaining th=
e term also<br>requires one to define &quot;coin coloring&quot;, and what t=
hat actually means, etc,<br>etc. IMO it&#39;s simpler to just use the famil=
iar and widely used asset<br>issuance/minting terminology.<br><br>-- Laolu<=
br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_att=
r">On Sun, Apr 10, 2022 at 9:10 PM Bram Cohen via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfo=
undation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">From: Olaoluwa Osuntokun &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:laolu32@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">laolu32@gmail.com</a=
>&gt;<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><div style=3D"margin:5px 0px=
"><div id=3D"gmail-m_-3661149741623974162gmail-q_10" aria-label=3D"Hide exp=
anded content" aria-expanded=3D"true" style=3D"background-color:rgb(232,234=
,237);border:none;clear:both;line-height:6px;outline:none;width:24px;color:=
rgb(80,0,80);font-size:11px;border-radius:5.5px"><div style=3D"background:u=
rl(&quot;https://www.gstatic.com/images/icons/material/system_gm/2x/more_ho=
riz_black_20dp.png&quot;) 50% 50%/20px no-repeat;height:11px;opacity:0.71;w=
idth:24px"></div></div></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80)"><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol=
id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>&gt; Furthermore, the Taro script=
 is not enforced by Bitcoin, meaning those who<br>&gt; control the Bitcoin =
script can always choose to ignore the Taro script and<br>&gt; destroy the =
Taro assets as a result.<br><br>This is correct, as a result in most contex=
ts, an incentive exists for the<br>holder of an asset to observe the Taro v=
alidation rules as otherwise, their<br>assets are burnt in the process from=
 the PoV of asset verifiers. In the<br>single<br>party case things are pret=
ty straight forward, but more care needs to be<br>taken<br>in cases where o=
ne attempts to express partial application and permits<br>anyone<br>to spen=
d a UTXO in question.<br><br>By strongly binding all assets to Bitcoin UTXO=
s, we resolve issues related<br>to<br>double spending or duplicate assets, =
but needs to mind the fact that assets<br>can<br>be burnt if a user doesn&#=
39;t supply a valid witness. There&#39;re likely ways to<br>get<br>around t=
his by lessening the binding to Bitcoin UTXO&#39;s, but then the system<br>=
would need to be able to collect, retain and order all the set of possible<=
br>spends, essentially requiring a parallel network. The core of the system=
 as<br>it<br>stands today is pretty simple (which was an explicit design go=
al to avoid<br>getting forever distracted by the large design space), with =
a minimal<br>implementation being relatively compact given all the Bitcoin =
context/design<br>re-use.<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div><div>T=
he TARO set of tradeoffs is fairly coherent but is subject to certain limit=
ations (modulo my understanding of it being off):</div><div><br></div><div>=
The witnesses for transactions need to be put into Bitcoin transactions eve=
n though the Bitcoin layer doesn&#39;t understand them</div><div><br></div>=
<div>There needs to be a constraint on Taro transactions which is understoo=
d by the Bitcoin layer (which often/usually happens naturally because there=
&#39;s a user signature but sometimes doesn&#39;t. It&#39;s a limitation)</=
div><div><br></div><div>Multiple Taro coins can&#39;t consolidate their val=
ue into a single output because they only support a single linear history</=
div><div><br></div><div>Taro issuance is limited to a single event rather t=
han potentially multiple events over time subject to special per-asset rule=
s.</div><div><br></div><div>This seems like a fairly logical approach (alth=
ough my understanding of the limitations/tradeoffs could be wrong, especial=
ly with regards to consolidation). There&#39;s nothing wrong with a system =
having well documented limitations, but I am puzzled by the announcement sa=
ying Taro assets are &#39;analogous with&#39; colored coins. Taro assets ar=
e straightforwardly and unambiguously colored coins and that isn&#39;t some=
thing to be ashamed of.</div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>

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