summaryrefslogtreecommitdiff
path: root/84/52ceefc90d006f039ef326ce362f3d547776e5
blob: 1af52d1fce2c7be1adac8aec3658d0f4b3646151 (plain)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
Return-Path: <user@petertodd.org>
Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [140.211.166.137])
 by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7DCDC002D
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Sat,  9 Jul 2022 15:13:55 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92A7741BBA
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Sat,  9 Jul 2022 15:13:55 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp4.osuosl.org 92A7741BBA
Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org;
 dkim=pass (2048-bit key, unprotected) header.d=petertodd.org
 header.i=@petertodd.org header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=fm1 header.b=dcm66I8c; 
 dkim=pass (2048-bit key,
 unprotected) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com
 header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=fm3 header.b=Z9Lxwa0L
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.802
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.802 tagged_above=-999 required=5
 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
 DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7,
 SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001]
 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id dQRDrTykDjXi
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Sat,  9 Jul 2022 15:13:54 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp4.osuosl.org D03EA41BB9
Received: from wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com
 [64.147.123.19])
 by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D03EA41BB9
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Sat,  9 Jul 2022 15:13:53 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44])
 by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB4BB3200645;
 Sat,  9 Jul 2022 11:13:49 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162])
 by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 09 Jul 2022 11:13:50 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=petertodd.org;
 h=cc:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to
 :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject
 :subject:to:to; s=fm1; t=1657379629; x=1657466029; bh=xKRIGaumEA
 D5ot1VgLvv9t/Enaf9OwtTDmB5mBxKFco=; b=dcm66I8ctXIucIZDMoxPi42f/3
 pLwv0cA4VL1lzCDM3LVMVma5F8XdUQUfKg2/6hbishap+4U5Iz2raV8SA2S446y+
 HhTOEODbq/HJt9CT28nTgsNMlQk+GnA5G/JHUBiKShosg0l8EDfQGzOrIJU4RxMD
 JsgLu2Vx8HbDbyGtkd0jBJ+tGcMOHh+VPtr+w59qMSf5TWLzeNB0vx3HosPtgrkO
 xRsZV6cH1do0VY/A1OE6ifMjisTDguoCaNKU6AB/hGsx38DBlwksULMm18HPbdzr
 PefArI60Ops+6UMiBJh8R5dnbDxKn7bIAxWi1o95D96H2hb+9iWgccl7Yhgw==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=
 messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:date:feedback-id
 :feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id
 :mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to
 :x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=
 fm3; t=1657379629; x=1657466029; bh=xKRIGaumEAD5ot1VgLvv9t/Enaf9
 OwtTDmB5mBxKFco=; b=Z9Lxwa0LO6VL9JBf7PSl5JY3/KSVL9+jsYU4nxu6j+qk
 FGaVvalMkDkE+nIPLI4pPQTI5j5PNNH+oMEHIWVCYY+Hn8chIeoYScW0VXCRFtYi
 xXtGyDrENBo3taYAK8B3a4+T74tWtr9rmvYlIRfRKOGHDxr38TrvEV2wB1yRM7zB
 cgKnv340Op1myJoKrOfikvWVRHSa80LqE7uazJptnb5M1x3GbZn0wI5HKiu5xju/
 TA650dtoCzj/KTs8JqPbKKdrCpRGK2r3pxBYXT7HPOKNcnMi3i2JOCWOGS5barRh
 xyZrIHVqEm74FQkBpA92B4CePMI+Xf4/WUYYh/CCDQ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:LZvJYp51x8oWnriBWXmpxy0LKx7cVgk2Ftv1RYjnSXgcuqobeGU6ng>
 <xme:LZvJYm4kN0RsRah2ogU9eA3QQvTowniLLORmfWFo5stKr7sfuVFI7Bsreethz6aX-
 avwjb_zCP1__G19kj8>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:LZvJYgev_YZkWfFEgaTZx7auF0R-PbXIYbgmoFpOAlujirgI0axvwcjPEjVn5zOIqI5TQ2xURJwzehtqxCfjleNzyXPNODLZ38L0xQ>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvfedrudeiledgkeekucetufdoteggodetrfdotf
 fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen
 uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne
 cujfgurhepfffhvffukfhfgggtuggjsehgtderredttddvnecuhfhrohhmpefrvghtvghr
 ucfvohguugcuoehpvghtvgesphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrgheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvg
 hrnhepiedvvdelieekjeeukefgtdelfeegheehleffueehteeghfelveejfeelgeevffef
 necuffhomhgrihhnpehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivg
 eptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepuhhsvghrsehpvghtvghrthhouggurdho
 rhhg
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:LZvJYiI8mxZn8JUjzNK8HxzLCpRsT8ZlEISGZDN5XJBFRdHj3TSM9g>
 <xmx:LZvJYtLquj8bSIq8Ilo3-J-PFAroXAlL9_sKJJlv6K5soiDZ_Yc9fQ>
 <xmx:LZvJYrxDDSgs_qQ07ehE8F3sR4MCRnEH_Iyt70lDQHcUeaY2PlY91w>
 <xmx:LZvJYvwFucMH1JTee687Bm55A1Sc2jtra-vDTUiD1JBCrRU5PcavCQ>
Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sat,
 9 Jul 2022 11:13:48 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000)
 id 014255F87C; Sat,  9 Jul 2022 11:13:44 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 11:13:44 -0400
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: John Tromp <john.tromp@gmail.com>,
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Message-ID: <YsmbKPrsM0wKXAYQ@petertodd.org>
References: <CAOU__fz8XSfEdOS9U7_H4A4jpCgtQepKxaW4jT5go91rhY-VQg@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512;
 protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Byqs61TGiCmvt0dy"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CAOU__fz8XSfEdOS9U7_H4A4jpCgtQepKxaW4jT5go91rhY-VQg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Surprisingly, Tail Emission Is Not Inflationary
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, 
 <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, 
 <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2022 15:13:56 -0000


--Byqs61TGiCmvt0dy
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, Jul 09, 2022 at 04:57:57PM +0200, John Tromp via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> > New blog post:
> > https://petertodd.org/2022/surprisingly-tail-emission-is-not-inflationa=
ry
>=20
> A Tail Emission is best described as disinflationary; the yearly
> supply inflation steadily decreases toward zero.

_Apparently_ inflation. True monetary inflation includes lost coins - both
intentionally and accidentally lost. It's quite possible that even with tail
emission Monero is currently a monetarily deflationary coin, as the lost co=
in
rate might be higher than the 0.8% apparent tail emission rate.

We just don't know. Doubly so in the case of monero where its privacy featu=
res
hide coin activity.

> > If an existing coin decides to implement tail emission as a means to fu=
nd security, choosing an appropriate emission rate is simple: decide on the=
 maximum amount of inflation you are willing to have in the worst case, and=
 set the tail emission accordingly.
>=20
> Any coin without a premine starts with infinite inflation. Bitcoin in
> its first 4 years had yearly inflation rates of inf, 100%, 50%, and
> 33%. So deciding on a maximum amount of inflation is deciding on a
> premine.

Hence why I specified an *existing* coin.

> While in the long term, a capped supply doesn't meaningfully differ
> from un uncapped supply [1], the 21M limit is central to Bitcoin's
> identity, and removing this limit results in something that can no
> longer be called Bitcoin.

Personally I think basing your identity on a technical point that isn't even
correct is stupid. And I suspect than when push comes to shove, if in ~10 y=
ears
or whatever Bitcoin turns out to be unstable without a reward, the market a=
s a
whole will be happy to redefine Bitcoin to remove the 21M limit. Whether or=
 not
it can do that fast enough to avoid Bitcoin dying first is an open question.

--=20
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org

--Byqs61TGiCmvt0dy
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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=S3Xa
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--Byqs61TGiCmvt0dy--