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From: Jonathan Underwood <junderwood@bitcoinbank.co.jp>
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 08:24:32 +0900
Message-ID: <CAMpN3m+BcbKE77jwgXnUN4GevaSS6R4ZEXe9kVrjiB_DNmu3uA@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Ferdinando M. Ametrano" <ferdinando@ametrano.net>, 
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Against proprietary and PoR fields in PSBT BIP174
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It is very common to set aside one or more "version slots" for proprietary
usage so that people adding their own features don't use version 7 only to
have the official BIP add a REAL version 7 a couple months later.
It makes perfect sense to just say "anyone adding their own stuff, format
your versions like this and stay out of our way"
As a BIP174 library, you don't have to add logic to "support" those
versions, just treat them as unknown. The only people who will need to
worry about the logic of parsing and encoding those versions are apps that
utilize them.

2020=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8817=E6=97=A5(=E7=81=AB) 8:41 Ferdinando M. Ametrano =
via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>:

> After having checked that the BIP174 test vectors do not cover the
> *proprietary* and *proof-of-reserves* types, I went ahead and submitted a
> PR to the bips repo for the removal of those fields from the PSBT
> specifications
>
> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1038
>
> --
> *Ferdinando M. Ametrano*
> www.ametrano.net/about
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 12:01 AM Ferdinando M. Ametrano <
> ferdinando@ametrano.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> While implementing PSBT support in the *btclib* library (
>> https://github.com/btclib-org/btclib), I have failed to understand the
>> rationale for the *proprietary* and *proof-of-reserves* types.
>>
>> First off, at face value they have nothing to do with the operations
>> intrinsically required to finalize a valid transaction from PSBT
>> manipulation.
>>
>> Moreover, whatever information content they can provide for non-standard
>> PSBT manipulation, that content could stay in the *unknown* field
>> without any loss of generality. How to structure and deal with unknown d=
ata
>> would be the responsibility of proprietary software or users wanting to
>> provide proof-of-reserve. As long as BIP174 clearly prescribes that
>> unknown data must be kept during PSBT manipulation, that should be enoug=
h.
>>
>> Let me stress the above point: I have a project where we include
>> proprietary information in the PSBT. Any PSBT software supporting unknow=
n
>> data gently keeps our proprietary information and our proprietary softwa=
re
>> retrieves that data from serialized PSBT with no problem. There is no ne=
ed
>> for a PSBT implementation to provide explicit support for *proprietary*
>> and *proof-of-reserves* types.
>>
>> My last conclusion is reinforced by the evidence of all PSBT
>> implementations I know of, including bitcoin core and HWI, not implement=
ing
>> proprietary and proof-of-reserve types. There is a high probability that
>> part of BIP174 would be just ignored.
>>
>> Am I missing something?
>>
>> Thanks
>> --
>> *Ferdinando M. Ametrano*
>> www.ametrano.net/about
>>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>


--=20
-----------------
Jonathan Underwood
=E3=83=93=E3=83=83=E3=83=88=E3=83=90=E3=83=B3=E3=82=AF=E7=A4=BE =E3=83=81=
=E3=83=BC=E3=83=95=E3=83=93=E3=83=83=E3=83=88=E3=82=B3=E3=82=A4=E3=83=B3=E3=
=82=AA=E3=83=95=E3=82=A3=E3=82=B5=E3=83=BC
-----------------

=E6=9A=97=E5=8F=B7=E5=8C=96=E3=81=97=E3=81=9F=E3=83=A1=E3=83=83=E3=82=BB=E3=
=83=BC=E3=82=B8=E3=82=92=E3=81=8A=E9=80=81=E3=82=8A=E3=81=AE=E6=96=B9=E3=81=
=AF=E4=B8=8B=E8=A8=98=E3=81=AE=E5=85=AC=E9=96=8B=E9=8D=B5=E3=82=92=E3=81=94=
=E5=88=A9=E7=94=A8=E4=B8=8B=E3=81=95=E3=81=84=E3=80=82

=E6=8C=87=E7=B4=8B: 0xCE5EA9476DE7D3E45EBC3FDAD998682F3590FEA3

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr">It is very common to set aside one or more &quot;version s=
lots&quot; for proprietary usage so that people adding their own features d=
on&#39;t use version 7 only to have the official BIP add a REAL version 7 a=
 couple months later.<br>It makes perfect sense to just say &quot;anyone ad=
ding their own stuff, format your versions like this and stay out of our wa=
y&quot;<br>As a BIP174 library, you don&#39;t have to add logic to &quot;su=
pport&quot; those versions, just treat them as unknown. The only people who=
 will need to worry about the logic of parsing and encoding those versions =
are apps that utilize them.</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D=
"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">2020=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=8817=E6=97=A5(=E7=81=AB) 8=
:41 Ferdinando M. Ametrano via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-de=
v@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;:=
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr=
"><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif">After hav=
ing=C2=A0checked that the BIP174 test vectors do not cover the=C2=A0<i>prop=
rietary</i>=C2=A0and=C2=A0<i>proof-of-reserves</i>=C2=A0types, I went ahead=
 and=C2=A0submitted a PR to the bips repo=C2=A0for the removal of those fie=
lds from the PSBT specifications</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><=
font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_defa=
ult"><a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1038" target=3D"_blank=
"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif">https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1=
038</font></a><br></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font fac=
e=3D"verdana, sans-serif">--<br></font></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><font si=
ze=3D"1" face=3D"verdana, sans-serif"><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px=
;line-height:12px;color:rgb(33,33,33);display:block"><span style=3D"margin:=
0px;padding:0px;line-height:12px;display:block"><b>Ferdinando M. Ametrano</=
b></span></span></font></div><div><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;fon=
t-size:10px;line-height:12px;color:rgb(33,33,33);display:block"><div style=
=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:small"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif"=
 style=3D"font-size:10px;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><a href=3D"https://www.ametr=
ano.net/about" style=3D"font-size:10px;color:rgb(17,85,204)" target=3D"_bla=
nk">www.ametrano.net/about</a></font></div></span></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 17, 2020 at 12:01 =
AM Ferdinando M. Ametrano &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ferdinando@ametrano.net" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">ferdinando@ametrano.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px so=
lid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail=
_default"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif">Hi all,</font></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif">While implement=
ing PSBT support in the <i>btclib</i> library (<a href=3D"https://github.co=
m/btclib-org/btclib" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/btclib-org/btclib=
</a>), I have failed to understand the rationale for the <i>proprietary</i>=
 and <i>proof-of-reserves</i> types.</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
default"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif">First off, at face value they h=
ave nothing to do with=C2=A0the operations intrinsically required to  final=
ize a valid transaction from PSBT manipulation.</font></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif">Moreover, whatever i=
nformation content they can provide for non-standard PSBT manipulation, tha=
t content could stay in the <i>unknown</i> field without any loss of genera=
lity. How to structure and deal with unknown data would be the responsibili=
ty=C2=A0of proprietary=C2=A0software or users wanting to provide proof-of-r=
eserve. As long as BIP174 clearly prescribes that unknown=C2=A0data must be=
 kept during PSBT manipulation, that should be enough.</font></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif">Let me stress=
 the above point: I have a project where we include proprietary information=
 in the PSBT. Any PSBT software supporting unknown data gently keeps our pr=
oprietary information and our proprietary software retrieves that data from=
 serialized PSBT with no problem. There is no need for a PSBT implementatio=
n to provide explicit support for=C2=A0<i>proprietary</i> and <i>proof-of-r=
eserves</i> types.</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"v=
erdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"></div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif">My last conclu=
sion is reinforced by the evidence of all PSBT implementations I know of, i=
ncluding bitcoin core and HWI, not implementing proprietary and proof-of-re=
serve types. There is a high probability that part of BIP174 would be just =
ignored.</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"verdana, sa=
ns-serif"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"verda=
na, sans-serif">Am I missing something?</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_def=
ault"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gma=
il_default"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif">Thanks</font></div><div><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"verdana, sa=
ns-serif">--<br></font></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><font size=3D"1" face=3D=
"verdana, sans-serif"><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;line-height:12p=
x;color:rgb(33,33,33);display:block"><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;=
line-height:12px;display:block"><b>Ferdinando M. Ametrano</b></span></span>=
</font></div><div><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;font-size:10px;line=
-height:12px;color:rgb(33,33,33);display:block"><div style=3D"color:rgb(34,=
34,34);font-size:small"><font face=3D"verdana, sans-serif" style=3D"font-si=
ze:10px;color:rgb(17,85,204)"><a href=3D"https://www.ametrano.net/about" st=
yle=3D"font-size:10px;color:rgb(17,85,204)" target=3D"_blank">www.ametrano.=
net/about</a></font></div></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>=
</div></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div>-----------------<br></div><div>Jonathan Underwood</div><div>=
=E3=83=93=E3=83=83=E3=83=88=E3=83=90=E3=83=B3=E3=82=AF=E7=A4=BE=E3=80=80=E3=
=83=81=E3=83=BC=E3=83=95=E3=83=93=E3=83=83=E3=83=88=E3=82=B3=E3=82=A4=E3=83=
=B3=E3=82=AA=E3=83=95=E3=82=A3=E3=82=B5=E3=83=BC</div><div>----------------=
-</div><div><br></div><div>=E6=9A=97=E5=8F=B7=E5=8C=96=E3=81=97=E3=81=9F=E3=
=83=A1=E3=83=83=E3=82=BB=E3=83=BC=E3=82=B8=E3=82=92=E3=81=8A=E9=80=81=E3=82=
=8A=E3=81=AE=E6=96=B9=E3=81=AF=E4=B8=8B=E8=A8=98=E3=81=AE=E5=85=AC=E9=96=8B=
=E9=8D=B5=E3=82=92=E3=81=94=E5=88=A9=E7=94=A8=E4=B8=8B=E3=81=95=E3=81=84=E3=
=80=82</div><div><br></div><div>=E6=8C=87=E7=B4=8B: 0xCE5EA9476DE7D3E45EBC3=
FDAD998682F3590FEA3</div></div></div></div></div></div>

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