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Date: Wed, 21 May 2025 14:47:24 +0000
To: Bob Burnett <bob.burnett@barefootmining.com>
From: Pieter Wuille <bitcoin-dev@wuille.net>
Cc: Sjors Provoost <sjors@sprovoost.nl>, Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Removing OP_Return restrictions: Devil's Advocate Position
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Hi Bob,

On Wednesday, May 21st, 2025 at 9:44 AM, Bob Burnett <bob.burnett@barefootm=
ining.com> wrote:

> On your other point regarding non-standard, I think you may have misunder=
stood my point. For me, the issue in the future in not about services for n=
on-standard transactions but about giving users a mechanism whereby they ca=
n get assurances about future access and cost of block space. For instance,=
 a user of block space (ex. Swan, River, Coinbase) might know that they wil=
l have a lot of demand for block space in October because they are going to=
 be doing a major marketing campaign then. The campaign would result in a l=
ot of UTXO consolidation and self-custody. The problem for them is that sit=
ting here in May they have no idea how much demand there will be for block =
space and what the cost of that block space will be. By getting the right a=
rrangement with a miner (or coalition of miners), they will be able to get =
guarantees of access to October block space and lock in cost for that space=
. (While this exact scenario is just an example, I can say that I am alread=
y working on some similar things.)

I think this is a rather remarkable response, and it undermines any opinion=
 you might have about transaction relay policy.

To me, the primary reason why I feel divergence between relay policy and th=
e set of transactions actually being mined is worrisome is because it incen=
tivizes private transaction submission to miners. If that becomes commonpla=
ce enough that a substantial portion of income is due to it, it may result =
in an inability for new small miners to enter the mining landscape in a per=
missionless manner, as they will not be competitive without income from pri=
vate submission.

The presence of non-publicly-enforced business deals about future block spa=
ce is a manifestation of the exact same danger, but arguably more imminent.=
 I recognize the use case, but the demand for it, or rather the feasibility=
 of obtaining it, sounds to me like an serious potential threat to Bitcoin.=
 And I don't know what can really be done about it, except more decentraliz=
ed mining.

Sorry to say, but if your point is "we don't care about the public network'=
s relay policy, because we'll just mine what our big direct customers want =
anyway", then you are quite literally what we need to prevent.

--
Pieter

>

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<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Hi Bob,</di=
v>
<div class=3D"protonmail_signature_block protonmail_signature_block-empty" =
style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">
    <div class=3D"protonmail_signature_block-user protonmail_signature_bloc=
k-empty">
       =20
            </div>
   =20
            <div class=3D"protonmail_signature_block-proton protonmail_sign=
ature_block-empty">
       =20
            </div>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;"><br><div cl=
ass=3D"protonmail_quote">
        On Wednesday, May 21st, 2025 at 9:44 AM, Bob Burnett &lt;bob.burnet=
t@barefootmining.com&gt; wrote:<br>
        <blockquote class=3D"protonmail_quote" type=3D"cite">
           =20
<div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt">On your other point regarding non-standard, I think you may have m=
isunderstood my point.&nbsp; For me, the issue in the future in not about s=
ervices for non-standard transactions but about giving users a mechanism
 whereby they can get assurances about future access and cost of block spac=
e.&nbsp; For instance, a user of block space (ex. Swan, River, Coinbase) mi=
ght know that they will have a lot of demand for block space in October bec=
ause they are going to be doing a major
 marketing campaign then.&nbsp; The campaign would result in a lot of UTXO =
consolidation and self-custody.&nbsp; The problem for them is that sitting =
here in May they have no idea how much demand there will be for block space=
 and what the cost of that block space will
 be.&nbsp; By getting the right arrangement with a miner (or coalition of m=
iners), they will be able to get guarantees of access to October block spac=
e and lock in cost for that space.&nbsp;&nbsp; (While this exact scenario i=
s just an example, I can say that I am already
 working on some similar things.)</span></p></div></blockquote><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><br></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">=
I think this is a rather remarkable response, and it undermines any opinion=
 you might have about transaction relay policy.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal=
"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">To me, the primary reason why I feel div=
ergence between relay policy and the set of transactions actually being min=
ed is worrisome is because it incentivizes private transaction submission t=
o miners. If that becomes commonplace enough that a substantial portion of =
income is due to it, it may result in an inability for new small miners to =
enter the mining landscape in a permissionless manner, as they will not be =
competitive without income from private submission.</span></p><p class=3D"M=
soNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><br></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal">The presence of non-publicly-enforced business deals about future blo=
ck space is a manifestation of the exact same danger, but arguably more imm=
inent. I recognize the use case, but the demand for it, or rather the feasi=
bility of obtaining it, sounds to me like an serious potential threat to Bi=
tcoin. And I don't know what can really be done about it, except more decen=
tralized mining.</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">S=
orry to say, but if your point is "we don't care about the public network's=
 relay policy, because we'll just mine what our big direct customers want a=
nyway", then you are quite literally what we need to prevent.</p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">-- <br>Pieter</p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><br></p><blockquote class=3D"protonmail_quote" type=3D"cite"><di=
v class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal">
    </p></div></blockquote></div></div>

<p></p>

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