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From: Johnson Lau <jl2012@xbt.hk>
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 19:00:53 +0800
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To: Christian Decker <decker.christian@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Safer NOINPUT with output tagging
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> On 20 Dec 2018, at 6:09 AM, Christian Decker =
<decker.christian@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> Ruben Somsen via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>>
> writes:
>=20
>> Hi Johnson,
>>=20
>> The design considerations here seem similar to the ML discussion of
>> whether Graftroot should be optional [1].
>>=20
>>> While this seems fully compatible with eltoo, is there any other =
proposals require NOINPUT, and is adversely affected by either way of =
tagging?
>>=20
>> As far as I can tell it should be compatible with Statechains [2],
>> since it pretty much mirrors Eltoo in setup.
>>=20
>> My understanding is somewhat lacking, so perhaps I am missing the
>> mark, but it is not completely clear to me how this affects
>> fungibility if taproot gets added and the setup and trigger tx for
>> Eltoo get combined into a single transaction. Would the NOINPUT
>> spending condition be hidden inside the taproot commitment?
>=20
> I'm not aware of a way to combine the setup and trigger transaction. =
The
> trigger transaction was introduced in order to delay the start of the
> timeouts until a later time, to avoid having an absolute lifetime =
limit
> and having really huge timeout. If we were to combine the trigger
> transaction with the setup transaction (which is broadcast during
> channel creation), all of those timeouts would start counting down
> immediately, and we could just skip the trigger transaction
> altogether. It'd be more interesting to combine update and trigger
> transactions in a sort of cut-through combination, but that doesn't =
seem
> possible outside of Mimblewimble.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Christian


Correct me if I=E2=80=99m wrong.

For the sake of simplicity, in the following I assume BIP118, 143, and =
141-P2WSH are used (i.e. no taproot). Also, I skipped all the possible =
optimisations.

1. A and B are going to setup a channel.

2. They create one setup tx, with a setup output of the following =
script: <s> CLTV DROP 2 Au Bu 2 CHECKMULTISIG. Do not sign

3. They create the update tx 0, spending the setup output with NOINPUT =
and locktime =3D s+1, to the update-0 output with the script:
IF 2 As0 Bs0 2 CHECKMULTISIG ELSE <s+1> CLTV DROP 2 Au Bu 2 =
CHECKMULTISIG ENDIF

4. They create the settlement tx 0, spending the update-0 output with =
As0 and Bs0 using BIP68 relative-locktime, with 2 settlement outputs

5. They sign the setup tx and let it confirm

6. To update, they create the update tx 1, spending the setup output =
with NOINPUT and locktime =3D s+2, to the update-1 output with the =
script:
IF 2 As1 Bs1 2 CHECKMULTISIG ELSE <s+2> CLTV DROP 2 Au Bu 2 =
CHECKMULTISIG ENDIF
and create the settlement tx 1, spending the update-1 output with As1 =
and Bs1 using relative-locktime, with 2 settlement outputs

7. To close the channel, broadcast update tx 1. Wait for several =
confirmations. And broadcast settlement-tx-1



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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On 20 Dec 2018, at 6:09 AM, Christian Decker &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:decker.christian@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">decker.christian@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Ruben Somsen via bitcoin-dev =
&lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" =
style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" =
class=3D"">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">&gt;</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">writes:</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: =
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D"">Hi =
Johnson,<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">The design considerations here =
seem similar to the ML discussion of<br class=3D"">whether Graftroot =
should be optional [1].<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D"">While this seems fully compatible with eltoo, =
is there any other proposals require NOINPUT, and is adversely affected =
by either way of tagging?<br class=3D""></blockquote><br class=3D"">As =
far as I can tell it should be compatible with Statechains [2],<br =
class=3D"">since it pretty much mirrors Eltoo in setup.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">My understanding is somewhat lacking, so perhaps I am missing =
the<br class=3D"">mark, but it is not completely clear to me how this =
affects<br class=3D"">fungibility if taproot gets added and the setup =
and trigger tx for<br class=3D"">Eltoo get combined into a single =
transaction. Would the NOINPUT<br class=3D"">spending condition be =
hidden inside the taproot commitment?<br class=3D""></blockquote><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">I'm not aware of a way to =
combine the setup and trigger transaction. The</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">trigger transaction was =
introduced in order to delay the start of the</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">timeouts until a later time, to =
avoid having an absolute lifetime limit</span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">and having really huge timeout. If we were to combine the =
trigger</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">transaction =
with the setup transaction (which is broadcast during</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">channel creation), all of those =
timeouts would start counting down</span><br style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">immediately, and we could just skip the trigger =
transaction</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">altogether. =
It'd be more interesting to combine update and trigger</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">transactions in a sort of =
cut-through combination, but that doesn't seem</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">possible outside of =
Mimblewimble.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Cheers,</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Christian</span></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Correct me if I=E2=80=99m =
wrong.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">For the =
sake of simplicity, in the following I assume BIP118, 143, and 141-P2WSH =
are used (i.e. no taproot). Also, I skipped all the possible =
optimisations.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">1. A and B are going to setup a channel.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">2. They create one setup =
tx, with a setup output of the following script:&nbsp;&lt;s&gt; CLTV =
DROP 2 Au Bu 2 CHECKMULTISIG. Do not sign</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">3. They create the update tx 0, =
spending the setup output with NOINPUT and locktime =3D s+1, to the =
update-0 output with the script:</div><div class=3D"">IF 2 As0 Bs0 2 =
CHECKMULTISIG ELSE &lt;s+1&gt; CLTV DROP 2 Au Bu 2 CHECKMULTISIG =
ENDIF</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">4. They =
create the settlement tx 0, spending the update-0 output with As0 and =
Bs0 using BIP68 relative-locktime, with 2 settlement outputs</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">5. They sign the setup =
tx and let it confirm</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">6. To update, they create the update tx 1, spending the setup =
output with NOINPUT and locktime =3D s+2, to the update-1 output with =
the script:</div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">IF 2 As1 Bs1 2 =
CHECKMULTISIG ELSE &lt;s+2&gt; CLTV DROP 2 Au Bu 2 CHECKMULTISIG =
ENDIF</div></div><div class=3D"">and create the settlement tx 1, =
spending the update-1 output with As1 and Bs1 using relative-locktime, =
with 2 settlement outputs</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">7. To close the channel, broadcast update tx 1. Wait for =
several confirmations. And broadcast settlement-tx-1</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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