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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2021 02:47:31 +0100 (CET)
From: Prayank <prayank@tutanota.de>
To: darosior@protonmail.com
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] A fee-bumping model
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Good morning darosior,

Subject of the email looks interesting and I have few comments on the thing=
s shared:

> The part of Revault we are interested in for this study is the delegation=
 process, and more specifically the application of spending policies by net=
work monitors (watchtowers). Participants regularly exchange the Cancel tra=
nsaction signatures for each deposit, sharing the signatures with the watch=
towers they operate.Watchtowers can enforce spending policies (say, can't U=
nvault outside of business hours) by having the Cancel transaction be confi=
rmed before the expiration of the timelock.

What are the privacy issues associated with such watchtowers?

> ## 4. We are still betting on future feerate
The problem is still missing one more constraint. "Ensuring confirmation at=
 any time" involves ensuring confirmation at *any* feerate, which you *cann=
ot* do.

Agree

> historical feerate: We currently use the maximum of the 95th percentiles =
over 90-days windows over historical block chain
feerates.

Disagree that fee rates used in past should matter.

> Apart from judging that 500sat/vb is probably more reasonable than 10sat/=
vbyte, this unfortunately sounds pretty much crystal-ball-driven.

Agree

> ## 7. Bumping and re-bumping
First of all, when to fee-bump? At fixed time intervals? At each block conn=
ection? It sounds like, given a large enough timelock, you could try to gre=
ed by "trying your luck" at a lower feerate and only re-bumping every N blo=
cks. You would then start aggressively bumping at every block after M block=
s have passed.

Agree

> You probably want to base your estimates on `estimatesmartfee`

Disagree. `estimatesmartfee` RPC has few issues: https://github.com/bitcoin=
/bitcoin/pull/22722#issuecomment-901907447

> ## 9. Insurances
there is definitely room for an insurance market.

Agree. I think its possible using discreet log contracts with some trust as=
sumptions and use of multi oracles.

I had one idea about creating insurance project for LGBTQ community in Indi=
a as they don't have enough options like others. Have shared the details he=
re:=C2=A0https://gist.github.com/prayank23/f30ab1ab68bffe6bcb2ceacec599cd36=
=20
As final point, I guess you already know about this presentation by Jack Ma=
llers in which he has described how we could create derivatives for users t=
o hedge fees: https://youtu.be/rBCG0btUlTw

--=20
Prayank

A3B1 E430 2298 178F

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<div>Good morning darosior,<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Subject of the email looks interesting and I have few comments on=
 the things shared:<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=
&gt; The part of Revault we are interested in for this study is the delegat=
ion process, and more specifically the application of spending policies by =
network monitors (watchtowers). Participants regularly exchange the Cancel =
transaction signatures for each deposit, sharing the signatures with the wa=
tchtowers they operate.Watchtowers can enforce spending policies (say, can'=
t Unvault outside of business hours) by having the Cancel transaction be co=
nfirmed before the expiration of the timelock.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><=
br></div><div dir=3D"auto">What are the privacy issues associated with such=
 watchtowers?<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">&gt; #=
# 4. We are still betting on future feerate<br></div><div dir=3D"auto">The =
problem is still missing one more constraint. "Ensuring confirmation at any=
 time" involves ensuring confirmation at *any* feerate, which you *cannot* =
do.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Agree<br></div><=
div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">&gt; historical feerate: We cu=
rrently use the maximum of the 95th percentiles over 90-days windows over h=
istorical block chain<br></div><div dir=3D"auto">feerates.<br></div><div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Disagree that fee rates used in past=
 should matter.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">&gt;=
 Apart from judging that 500sat/vb is probably more reasonable than 10sat/v=
byte, this unfortunately sounds pretty much crystal-ball-driven.<br></div><=
div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Agree<br></div><div dir=3D"aut=
o"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">&gt; ## 7. Bumping and re-bumping<br></div><=
div dir=3D"auto">First of all, when to fee-bump? At fixed time intervals? A=
t each block connection? It sounds like, given a large enough timelock, you=
 could try to greed by "trying your luck" at a lower feerate and only re-bu=
mping every N blocks. You would then start aggressively bumping at every bl=
ock after M blocks have passed.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div d=
ir=3D"auto">Agree<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">&g=
t; You probably want to base your estimates on `estimatesmartfee`<br></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Disagree. `estimatesmartfee` =
RPC has few issues: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/22722#issuecomm=
ent-901907447<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">&gt; #=
# 9. Insurances<br></div><div dir=3D"auto">there is definitely room for an =
insurance market.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Ag=
ree. I think its possible using discreet log contracts with some trust assu=
mptions and use of multi oracles.<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div=
 dir=3D"auto">I had one idea about creating insurance project for LGBTQ com=
munity in India as they don't have enough options like others. Have shared =
the details here:&nbsp;https://gist.github.com/prayank23/f30ab1ab68bffe6bcb=
2ceacec599cd36 </div><div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">As final point, I gue=
ss you already know about this presentation by Jack Mallers in which he has=
 described how we could create derivatives for users to hedge fees: https:/=
/youtu.be/rBCG0btUlTw<br></div><div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">-- <br></di=
v><div>Prayank<br></div><div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">A3B1 E430 2298 178=
F<br></div>  </body>
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