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From: Eric Lombrozo <elombrozo@gmail.com>
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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] User vote in blocksize through fees
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That=E2=80=99s exactly the problem with Bitcoin - it was supposed to be =
the case that users ARE the miners and node operators=E2=80=A6but=E2=80=A6=
alas=E2=80=A6

> On Jun 13, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Danny Thorpe <danny.thorpe@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Please forgive my ignorance, but why should Bitcoin users have a say =
in block size limits?  It's the miners and Bitcoin node operators that =
bear the burden of managing large blocks, no?
>=20
> Users voting on network parameters sounds like neighbors voting on how =
deep my swimming pool should be.
>=20
> Thanks,
> -Danny
>=20
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org =
<mailto:pete@petertodd.org>> wrote:
> Jeff Garzik recently proposed that the upper blocksize limit be =
removed
> entirely, with a "soft" limit being enforced via miner vote, recorded =
by
> hashing power.
>=20
> This mechanism within the protocol for users to have any influence =
over
> the miner vote. We can add that back by providing a way for =
transactions
> themselves to set a flag determining whether or not they can be =
included
> in a block casting a specific vote.
>=20
> We can simplify Garzik's vote to say that one of the nVersion bits
> either votes for the blocksize to be increased, or decreased, by some
> fixed ratio (e.g 2x or 1/2x) the next interval. Then we can use a
> nVersion bit in transactions themselves, also voting for an increase =
or
> decrease. Transactions may only be included in blocks with an
> indentical vote, thus providing miners with a monetary incentive via
> fees to vote according to user wishes.
>=20
> Of course, to cast a "don't care" vote we can either define an
> additional bit, or sign the transaction with both versions. Equally we
> can even have different versions with different fees, broadcast via a
> mechanism such as replace-by-fee.
>=20
>=20
> See also John Dillon's proposal for proof-of-stake blocksize voting:
>=20
> =
https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg=
02323.html =
<https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/ms=
g02323.html>
>=20
> --
> 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org <http://petertodd.org/>
> 0000000000000000127ab1d576dc851f374424f1269c4700ccaba2c42d97e778
>=20
> =
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net =
<mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development =
<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development>
>=20
>=20
> =
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">That=E2=80=99s exactly the problem with Bitcoin - it was =
supposed to be the case that users ARE the miners and node =
operators=E2=80=A6but=E2=80=A6alas=E2=80=A6<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Jun 13, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Danny Thorpe &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:danny.thorpe@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">danny.thorpe@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">Please forgive my ignorance, but why should Bitcoin users =
have a say in block size limits?&nbsp; It's the miners and Bitcoin node =
operators that bear the burden of managing large blocks, no? &nbsp;<div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Users voting on network =
parameters sounds like neighbors voting on how deep my swimming pool =
should be.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thanks,</div><div class=3D"">-Danny</div></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, =
Jun 12, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Peter Todd <span dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:pete@petertodd.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">pete@petertodd.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br =
class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Jeff Garzik recently =
proposed that the upper blocksize limit be removed<br class=3D"">
entirely, with a "soft" limit being enforced via miner vote, recorded =
by<br class=3D"">
hashing power.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
This mechanism within the protocol for users to have any influence =
over<br class=3D"">
the miner vote. We can add that back by providing a way for =
transactions<br class=3D"">
themselves to set a flag determining whether or not they can be =
included<br class=3D"">
in a block casting a specific vote.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
We can simplify Garzik's vote to say that one of the nVersion bits<br =
class=3D"">
either votes for the blocksize to be increased, or decreased, by some<br =
class=3D"">
fixed ratio (e.g 2x or 1/2x) the next interval. Then we can use a<br =
class=3D"">
nVersion bit in transactions themselves, also voting for an increase =
or<br class=3D"">
decrease. Transactions may only be included in blocks with an<br =
class=3D"">
indentical vote, thus providing miners with a monetary incentive via<br =
class=3D"">
fees to vote according to user wishes.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
Of course, to cast a "don't care" vote we can either define an<br =
class=3D"">
additional bit, or sign the transaction with both versions. Equally =
we<br class=3D"">
can even have different versions with different fees, broadcast via a<br =
class=3D"">
mechanism such as replace-by-fee.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
See also John Dillon's proposal for proof-of-stake blocksize voting:<br =
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
<a =
href=3D"https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge=
.net/msg02323.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourcefo=
rge.net/msg02323.html</a><br class=3D"">
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888" class=3D""><br class=3D"">
--<br class=3D"">
'peter'[:-1]@<a href=3D"http://petertodd.org/" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">petertodd.org</a><br class=3D"">
0000000000000000127ab1d576dc851f374424f1269c4700ccaba2c42d97e778<br =
class=3D"">
</font></span><br =
class=3D"">---------------------------------------------------------------=
---------------<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" =
class=3D"">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br class=3D"">
<a =
href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-developmen=
t</a><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D""></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div>
=
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----<br class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">Bitcoin-development mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" =
class=3D"">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br =
class=3D"">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-developmen=
t<br class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></div></body></html>=

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