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From: Eric Martindale <eric@ericmartindale.com>
Date: Sat, 8 May 2021 09:44:24 -0400
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To: SatoshiSingh <SatoshiSingh@protonmail.com>, 
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Opinion on proof of stake in future
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Mr. Singh,

Proof of Stake is only resilient to =E2=85=93 of the network demonstrating =
a
Byzantine Fault, whilst Proof of Work is resilient up to the =C2=BD thresho=
ld.
You can explore prior research here:
https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf

Independent of the security thresholds, Proof of Stake requires other
trade-offs which are incompatible with Bitcoin's objective (to be a
trustless digital cash) =E2=80=94 specifically the famous "security vs. liv=
eness"
guarantee.  Digital cash is not useful if it must be globally halted to
ensure its security, and Proof of Work squarely addresses this concern.

Above and beyond any security consideration, Proof of Stake incentivizes
the accumulation of wealth within a small set of actors, which is
undesirable for the long-term health of any such network.  If we are to
free humanity from the tyranny of the State, we must do so by protecting
the rights of every individual to hold and preserve their own value,
without trusting any third party.  Entrusting the health of the network to
the "economic elite" is the paramount evil with respect to Bitcoin's
objectives, nevermind that Proof of Work relies on energy expenditure to
provide its security.

Sincerely,

Eric Martindale, relentless maker.
Founder & CEO, Fabric, Inc. <https://fabric.fm>
+1 (919) 374-2020


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 6:50 PM SatoshiSingh via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> I am a lurker here and like many of you I worry about the energy usage of
> bitcoin mining. I understand a lot mining happens with renewable resource=
s
> but the impact is still high.
>
> I want to get your opinion on implementing proof of stake for bitcoin
> mining in future. For now, proof of stake is still untested and not battl=
e
> tested like proof of work. Though someday it will be.
>
> In the following years we'll be seeing proof of stake being implemented.
> Smaller networks can test PoS which is a luxury bitcoin can't afford.
> Here's how I see this the possibilities:
>
> 1 - Proof of stake isn't a good enough security mechanism
> 2 - Proof of state is a good security mechanism and works as intended
>
> IF PoS turns out to be good after battle testing, would you consider
> implementing it for Bitcoin? I understand this would invoke a lot of
> controversies and a hard fork that no one likes. But its important enough
> to consider a hard fork. What are your opinions provided PoS does work?
>
> Love from India.
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Mr. Singh,<br><br>Proof of Stake is only resilient to=C2=
=A0=E2=85=93 of the network demonstrating a Byzantine Fault, whilst Proof o=
f Work is resilient up to the=C2=A0=C2=BD threshold.=C2=A0 You can explore =
prior research here:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoi=
n/pos.pdf" target=3D"_blank">https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pd=
f</a><br><br>Independent of the security thresholds, Proof of Stake require=
s other trade-offs which are incompatible with Bitcoin&#39;s objective (to =
be a trustless digital cash) =E2=80=94 specifically the famous &quot;securi=
ty vs. liveness&quot; guarantee.=C2=A0 Digital cash is not useful if it mus=
t be globally halted to ensure its security, and Proof of Work squarely add=
resses this concern.<br><br>Above and beyond any security consideration, Pr=
oof of Stake incentivizes the accumulation of wealth within a small set of =
actors, which is undesirable for the long-term health of any such network.=
=C2=A0 If we are to free humanity from the tyranny of the State, we must do=
 so by protecting the rights of every individual to hold and preserve their=
 own value, without trusting any third party.=C2=A0 Entrusting the health o=
f the network to the &quot;economic elite&quot; is the paramount evil with =
respect to Bitcoin&#39;s objectives, nevermind that Proof of Work relies on=
 energy expenditure to provide its security.<br><br>Sincerely,<br><br><div>=
<div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:&quot;He=
lvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:19=
.5px">Eric Martindale, relentless maker.</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(33,33=
,33);font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font=
-size:13px;line-height:19.5px">Founder &amp; CEO, <a href=3D"https://fabric=
.fm" target=3D"_blank">Fabric, Inc.</a></div><div style=3D"color:rgb(33,33,=
33);font-family:&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-=
size:13px;line-height:19.5px">+1 (919) 374-2020</div></div></div></div></di=
v></div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cla=
ss=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 6:50 PM SatoshiSingh via bitcoin-d=
ev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_=
blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1=
px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hello list,<br>
<br>
I am a lurker here and like many of you I worry about the energy usage of b=
itcoin mining. I understand a lot mining happens with renewable resources b=
ut the impact is still high.<br>
<br>
I want to get your opinion on implementing proof of stake for bitcoin minin=
g in future. For now, proof of stake is still untested and not battle teste=
d like proof of work. Though someday it will be.<br>
<br>
In the following years we&#39;ll be seeing proof of stake being implemented=
. Smaller networks can test PoS which is a luxury bitcoin can&#39;t afford.=
 Here&#39;s how I see this the possibilities:<br>
<br>
1 - Proof of stake isn&#39;t a good enough security mechanism<br>
2 - Proof of state is a good security mechanism and works as intended<br>
<br>
IF PoS turns out to be good after battle testing, would you consider implem=
enting it for Bitcoin? I understand this would invoke a lot of controversie=
s and a hard fork that no one likes. But its important enough to consider a=
 hard fork. What are your opinions provided PoS does work?<br>
<br>
Love from India.<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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