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From: <eric@voskuil.org>
To: "'LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH'" <willtech@live.com.au>,
 "'Bitcoin Protocol Discussion'" <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
 "'Daniel Edgecumbe'" <email@esotericnonsense.com>
References: <SL2P216MB0089B70AEDD58F2EBC46B4309D9A9@SL2P216MB0089.KORP216.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2021 03:58:35 -0800
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK
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> consensus requires the ledger to be honest does not prove that it is =
honest.

=20

Actually, that=E2=80=99s exactly what it does. A logical/mathematical =
requirement (necessity) is also called a proof.

=20

e

=20

From: bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org> On =
Behalf Of LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev
Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2021 7:06 PM
To: M.K. Safi via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>; =
Daniel Edgecumbe <email@esotericnonsense.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK

=20

"Today I spent approximately $5 at a chip shop in North London in cash. =
Besides the fact that I have voluntarily chosen to share this =
information, it is absolutely no concern of yourself or any other party =
that this transaction has occured."

=20

Good Afternoon,

=20

Requiring little argument I concur, privacy allows that you do not have =
snoops and researchers following you around looking in your purse as you =
transact. For the general public, how much you carry in your purse and =
where you get it from is none of their business. However, your employer =
is required to report to the government a record of pay, or at least =
maintain that record, and the store where you made a purchase similarly =
to keep records so that taxes can be paid. From their perspective, you =
do not need to know how much they keep in their drawer. Bitcoin directly =
allows your purse to be private and for the transaction ledger to take =
the scrutiny anyone should be able to apply to prove the ledger is =
honest. Maintaining an argument that consensus requires the ledger to be =
honest does not prove that it is honest.

=20

KING JAMES HRMH

Great British Empire

=20

Regards,

The Australian

LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH)

of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire

MR. Damian A. James Williamson

Wills

=20

et al.

=20

=20

Willtech

www.willtech.com.au <http://www.willtech.com.au>=20

www.go-overt.com <http://www.go-overt.com>=20

and other projects

=20

earn.com/willtech

linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson

=20

=20

m. 0487135719

f. +61261470192

=20

=20

This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this =
email if misdelivered.

  _____ =20

From: bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org> on =
behalf of Daniel Edgecumbe via bitcoin-dev =
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> >
Sent: Tuesday, 2 March 2021 12:16 PM
To: M.K. Safi via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> >
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK=20

=20

Any "transparency" in the blockchain, beyond that required for a =
participant to determine valid ownership, can only reasonably be thought =
of as a bug.

Today I spent approximately $5 at a chip shop in North London in cash. =
Besides the fact that I have voluntarily chosen to share this =
information, it is absolutely no concern of yourself or any other party =
that this transaction has occured.

Bitcoin is digital cash.

Daniel Edgecumbe | esotericnonsense
email@esotericnonsense.com <mailto:email@esotericnonsense.com>  | =
https://esotericnonsense.com

On Mon, Mar 1, 2021, at 22:37, Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> To be clear, is this a NACK because Taproot reduces =
=E2=80=9Ctransparency=E2=80=9D=20
> (increases privacy) on the chain (=E2=80=9Cmaintaining =
consensus=E2=80=9D is obviously=20
> an argument against any protocol change, so that=E2=80=99s a red =
herring)?=20
>=20
> And is it your theory that only an =E2=80=9Chonest=E2=80=9D (statute =
abiding) person=20
> should have privacy, and not against the state, and/or that mixers are =

> sufficient privacy?
>=20
> Personally, I=E2=80=99m not moved by such an argument. What do you =
think is the=20
> value proposition of Bitcoin?
>=20
> e
>=20
> > On Mar 1, 2021, at 14:21, LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via =
bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> > wrote:
> >=20
> > =EF=BB=BF=20
> > Good Afternoon,
> >=20
> > I am going to take tough terms with much of your reply and do =
appreciate a courteous practice. Having previously made public =
disclosure of my affiliation with Jambler.io it seems sufficient to =
disclose my affiliation through the link in my email signature block.
> >=20
> > My concern is not increased privacy it is maintaining consensus =
values and the transparency of the blockchain wherein all transactions =
are published in an immutable record and that forbids the redaction of =
information by any obfuscation. A separate concern is the availability =
of a privacy suitable for cash should a Bitcoin user desire and =
especially without disturbing the existing consensus.
> >=20
> > The use of a Bitcoin Mixer is to enable standard equivalent privacy. =
As you may experience yourself, you do not allow people to follow you =
around looking in your purse, suppose you are dealing entirely with =
cash, and to see where and how much you fill it up, and where you spend. =
Nonetheless, for an honest person, their wallet is available for =
government audit as are their financial affairs. This is consistent with =
the existing operation of consensus.
> >=20
> > My full email signature block is a disclosure where I have some =
affiliation with the referenced website being that it carries at least =
some information that I have provided or that in some way I am =
associated perhaps only making use of their services. For example, I =
hardly make a profit from LinkedIn just my information is there. Also, I =
have made previous public disclosure of the affiliation. Bitcoin Mixer =
2.0 is a partner mixer run by Jambler.io wherein I receive a service =
referral fee and am not in receipt of any part of the process =
transaction. The operation block diagram provided by Jambler.io is =
provided here and attached.
> > <ip.bitcointalk.org.png>
> >=20
> > [ip.bitcointalk.org.png]-Operation of Jambler.io partner mixer
> > =
https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fjambler.io%2Fimages%2Fschem=
e-1.png =
<https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fjambler.io%2Fimages%2Fsche=
me-1.png&t=3D622&c=3DgTi7r1cfh-yynw> &t=3D622&c=3DgTi7r1cfh-yynw
> > from this thread  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D5267588
> >=20
> >=20
> > The installation script provided by Jambler.io that is the basis of =
my referral website is also publicly published,
> > https://github.com/jambler-io/bitcoin-mixer
> >=20
> > The disclosure for the partner program is available from Jambler.io =
however and is made prominently on my referral website. While it may =
seem lucrative at first I insist all partner profits are reportable on =
your personal income.
> > https://jambler.io/become-partner.php
> >=20
> > I am certainly better than confident that you appreciate the =
difference between an open and transparent blockchain and the ability of =
the user to not reveal details of the content of their wallet publicly.
> >=20
> > If further clarification is required may I suggest you pay a token =
and mix some Bitcoin wherein our discussion may then have some point of =
reference.
> >=20
> > KING JAMES HRMH
> > Great British Empire
> >=20
> > Regards,
> > The Australian
> > LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH)
> > of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire
> > MR. Damian A. James Williamson
> > Wills
> >=20
> > et al.
> >=20
> > =20
> > Willtech
> > www.willtech.com.au <http://www.willtech.com.au>=20
> > www.go-overt.com <http://www.go-overt.com>=20
> > and other projects
> > =20
> > earn.com/willtech
> > linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson
> >=20
> >=20
> > m. 0487135719
> > f. +61261470192
> >=20
> >=20
> > This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard =
this email if misdelivered.
> > *From:* Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces <arielluaces@gmail.com =
<mailto:arielluaces@gmail.com> >
> > *Sent:* Monday, 1 March 2021 12:07 AM
> > *To:* LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH <willtech@live.com.au =
<mailto:willtech@live.com.au> >; Bitcoin Protocol Discussion =
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> >
> > *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK=20
> > =20
> > Hello LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH
> >=20
> > I find a striking dichotomy between your concern of increased =
privacy in bitcoin and your link to a bitcoin mixer in your signature =
www.go-overt.com <http://www.go-overt.com>=20
> >=20
> > At first your concerns seemed genuine but after seeing your =
promotion of a bitcoin mixer I'm thinking your concerns may be more =
profit motivated? I can't tell since you failed to disclose your =
relationship with the mixer.
> >=20
> > Could you please clarify your association with the bitcoin mixer and =
moving forward could you please always do proper disclosure any time =
you're publically talking about bitcoin transaction privacy. It's only =
fair to do so as to not mislead people in an attempt to manipulate at =
worst and just a courteous practice at best.
> >=20
> > Cheers
> > Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces
> > On Feb 28, 2021, at 4:36 AM, LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via =
bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> > wrote:=20
> >> Good Evening,=20
> >>=20
> >> Thank-you for your advice   @JeremyRubin =
<https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>  on the basis you advise, "Taproot =
does not enable monero-like privacy features", I am prepred to withdraw =
my NACK notably that the existing feeatures of Bitcoin MUST be =
maintained, and whereby the UTXO of a transaction is identifiable, the =
PayTo Address, and the amount all without any obfuscation.=20
> >>=20
> >> Lightning does not really provide obfuscation, it provides a result =
of a subset of transactions although the operation of the channel is =
observable to the parties.=20
> >>=20
> >> The reports I were reading concerning the supposed operation of =
Taproot published in a public media channel may have been speculation or =
misinformation nonetheless it is prudent to conditionally reply as you =
see that I have. It is important not to allow things to slip through the =
cracks. As you may believe may astute reviewers could make a full =
disclosure to this list it is not to be expected.=20
> >>=20
> >> KING JAMES HRMH=20
> >> Great British Empire=20
> >>=20
> >> Regards,=20
> >> The Australian=20
> >> LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH)=20
> >> of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire=20
> >> MR. Damian A. James Williamson=20
> >> Wills=20
> >>=20
> >> et al.=20
> >>=20
> >>  =20
> >> Willtech=20
> >> www.willtech.com.au <http://www.willtech.com.au> =20
> >> www.go-overt.com <http://www.go-overt.com> =20
> >> and other projects=20
> >>  =20
> >> earn.com/willtech=20
> >> linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson=20
> >>=20
> >>=20
> >> m. 0487135719=20
> >> f. +61261470192=20
> >>=20
> >>=20
> >> This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard =
this email if misdelivered.=20
> >> *From:* Jeremy <jlrubin@mit.edu <mailto:jlrubin@mit.edu> >
> >> *Sent:* Sunday, 28 February 2021 3:14 AM
> >> *To:* LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH <willtech@live.com.au =
<mailto:willtech@live.com.au> >; Bitcoin Protocol Discussion =
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> >
> >> *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot NACK=20
> >>  =20
> >> I have good news for you: Taproot does not enable monero-like =
privacy features any moreso than already exist in Bitcoin today. At its =
core, taproot is a way to make transactions with embedded smart =
contracts less expensive, done so in a manner that may marginally =
improve privacy dependent on user behavior (but not in the monero-like =
way you mention). For example, it makes it possible for lightning =
channels to look structurally similar to single key wallets, but it does =
nothing inherently to obfuscate the transaction graph as in monero.=20
> >>=20
> >> Such "monero-like" transaction graph obfuscation may already exist =
in Bitcoin via other techniques (coinjoin, payjoin, coinswap, lightning, =
etc) with or without Taproot, so the point is further moot.=20
> >>=20
> >> Do you have a source on your reporting?=20
> >>=20
> >> You may wish to rescind your nack.=20
> >>=20
> >>=20
> >> --=20
> >> @JeremyRubin <https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>  =
<https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin>
> >>=20
> >>=20
> >> On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 5:46 AM LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via =
bitcoin-dev < bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> > wrote:=20
> >>> Good Afternoon,=20
> >>>=20
> >>> It has been reported that Taproot will enable some Monero like =
features including the ability to hide transactions.=20
> >>>=20
> >>> If that is the case I offer a full NACK and let me explain.=20
> >>>=20
> >>> A part of the benefit of using Bitcoin is its honesty. The full =
transaction is published on the blockchain. If that were to change so =
that transactions may be obfuscated from scrutiny then any government =
would have unlimited impetus to ban Bitcoin, and speculation has that is =
the reason India has been reported to have banned cryptocurrencies =
already.=20
> >>>=20
> >>> I am in support of the expanded use case of Bitcoin without =
harming the established robust fairness and equal equity offered. The =
core functionality of Bitcoin, its values, must remain unaltered.=20
> >>>=20
> >>> KING JAMES HRMH=20
> >>> Great British Empire=20
> >>>=20
> >>> Regards,=20
> >>> The Australian=20
> >>> LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (& HMRH)=20
> >>> of Hougun Manor & Glencoe & British Empire=20
> >>> MR. Damian A. James Williamson=20
> >>> Wills=20
> >>>=20
> >>> et al.=20
> >>>=20
> >>>  =20
> >>> Willtech=20
> >>> www.willtech.com.au <http://www.willtech.com.au> =20
> >>> www.go-overt.com <http://www.go-overt.com> =20
> >>> and other projects=20
> >>>  =20
> >>> earn.com/willtech=20
> >>> linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson=20
> >>>=20
> >>>=20
> >>> m. 0487135719=20
> >>> f. +61261470192=20
> >>>=20
> >>>=20
> >>> This email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard =
this email if misdelivered.=20
> >>> _______________________________________________=20
> >>> bitcoin-dev mailing list=20
> >>> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> =20
> >>> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev=20
> >> =20
> >> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> >> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>=20
> >> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> > <ip.bitcointalk.org.png>
> > _______________________________________________
> > bitcoin-dev mailing list
> > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>=20
> > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>=20
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>=20
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>&gt; <span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>consensus requires the ledger to =
be honest does not prove that it is honest.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Actually, =
that=E2=80=99s exactly what it does. A logical/mathematical requirement =
(necessity) is also called a proof.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>e</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> bitcoin-dev =
&lt;bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev<br><b>Sent:</b> =
Tuesday, March 2, 2021 7:06 PM<br><b>To:</b> M.K. Safi via bitcoin-dev =
&lt;bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org&gt;; Daniel Edgecumbe =
&lt;email@esotericnonsense.com&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [bitcoin-dev] =
Taproot NACK<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&quot;</span><span =
style=3D'color:black'>Today I spent approximately $5 at a chip shop in =
North London in cash. Besides the fact that I have voluntarily chosen to =
share this information, it is absolutely no concern of yourself or any =
other party that this transaction has occured.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Good =
Afternoon,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Requiring little argument I =
concur, privacy allows that you do not have snoops and researchers =
following you around looking in your purse as you transact. For the =
general public, how much you carry in your purse and where you get it =
from is none of their business. However, your employer is required to =
report to the government a record of pay, or at least maintain that =
record, and the store where you made a purchase similarly to keep =
records so that taxes can be paid. From their perspective, you do not =
need to know how much they keep in their drawer. Bitcoin directly allows =
your purse to be private and for the transaction ledger to take the =
scrutiny anyone should be able to apply to prove the ledger is honest. =
Maintaining an argument that consensus requires the ledger to be honest =
does not prove that it is =
honest.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div id=3DSignature><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>KING JAMES =
HRMH<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Great British =
Empire<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>The =
Australian<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH =
(&amp; HMRH)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>of Hougun Manor &amp; Glencoe =
&amp; British Empire<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>MR. =
Damian A. James Williamson<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Wills<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>et =
al.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Willtech<o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><a =
href=3D"http://www.willtech.com.au">www.willtech.com.au</a><o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><a =
href=3D"http://www.go-overt.com">www.go-overt.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></=
p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>and other =
projects<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>earn.com/willtech<o:p></o:p></span=
></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson<o=
:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>m. =
0487135719<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>f. =
+61261470192<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>This =
email does not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this email =
if misdelivered.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div>=
</div></div></div><div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><hr size=3D2 width=3D"98%" =
align=3Dcenter></div><div id=3DdivRplyFwdMsg><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'color:black'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'color:black'> bitcoin-dev &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev=
-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; on behalf of Daniel Edgecumbe =
via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.l=
inuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 2 March 2021 12:16 =
PM<br><b>To:</b> M.K. Safi via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.l=
inuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [bitcoin-dev] Taproot =
NACK</span> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Any &quot;transparency&quot; in the blockchain, beyond =
that required for a participant to determine valid ownership, can only =
reasonably be thought of as a bug.<br><br>Today I spent approximately $5 =
at a chip shop in North London in cash. Besides the fact that I have =
voluntarily chosen to share this information, it is absolutely no =
concern of yourself or any other party that this transaction has =
occured.<br><br>Bitcoin is digital cash.<br><br>Daniel Edgecumbe | =
esotericnonsense<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:email@esotericnonsense.com">email@esotericnonsense.com</a>=
 | <a =
href=3D"https://esotericnonsense.com">https://esotericnonsense.com</a><br=
><br>On Mon, Mar 1, 2021, at 22:37, Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev =
wrote:<br>&gt; To be clear, is this a NACK because Taproot reduces =
=E2=80=9Ctransparency=E2=80=9D <br>&gt; (increases privacy) on the chain =
(=E2=80=9Cmaintaining consensus=E2=80=9D is obviously <br>&gt; an =
argument against any protocol change, so that=E2=80=99s a red herring)? =
<br>&gt; <br>&gt; And is it your theory that only an =
=E2=80=9Chonest=E2=80=9D (statute abiding) person <br>&gt; should have =
privacy, and not against the state, and/or that mixers are <br>&gt; =
sufficient privacy?<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Personally, I=E2=80=99m not moved =
by such an argument. What do you think is the <br>&gt; value proposition =
of Bitcoin?<br>&gt; <br>&gt; e<br>&gt; <br>&gt; &gt; On Mar 1, 2021, at =
14:21, LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.l=
inuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; =EF=BB=BF =
<br>&gt; &gt; Good Afternoon,<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; I am going to =
take tough terms with much of your reply and do appreciate a courteous =
practice. Having previously made public disclosure of my affiliation =
with Jambler.io it seems sufficient to disclose my affiliation through =
the link in my email signature block.<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; My =
concern is not increased privacy it is maintaining consensus values and =
the transparency of the blockchain wherein all transactions are =
published in an immutable record and that forbids the redaction of =
information by any obfuscation. A separate concern is the availability =
of a privacy suitable for cash should a Bitcoin user desire and =
especially without disturbing the existing consensus.<br>&gt; &gt; =
<br>&gt; &gt; The use of a Bitcoin Mixer is to enable standard =
equivalent privacy. As you may experience yourself, you do not allow =
people to follow you around looking in your purse, suppose you are =
dealing entirely with cash, and to see where and how much you fill it =
up, and where you spend. Nonetheless, for an honest person, their wallet =
is available for government audit as are their financial affairs. This =
is consistent with the existing operation of consensus.<br>&gt; &gt; =
<br>&gt; &gt; My full email signature block is a disclosure where I have =
some affiliation with the referenced website being that it carries at =
least some information that I have provided or that in some way I am =
associated perhaps only making use of their services. For example, I =
hardly make a profit from LinkedIn just my information is there. Also, I =
have made previous public disclosure of the affiliation. Bitcoin Mixer =
2.0 is a partner mixer run by Jambler.io wherein I receive a service =
referral fee and am not in receipt of any part of the process =
transaction. The operation block diagram provided by Jambler.io is =
provided here and attached.<br>&gt; &gt; =
&lt;ip.bitcointalk.org.png&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; =
[ip.bitcointalk.org.png]-Operation of Jambler.io partner mixer<br>&gt; =
&gt; <a =
href=3D"https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fjambler.io%2Fimages=
%2Fscheme-1.png&amp;t=3D622&amp;c=3DgTi7r1cfh-yynw">https://ip.bitcointal=
k.org/?u=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fjambler.io%2Fimages%2Fscheme-1.png&amp;t=3D622&a=
mp;c=3DgTi7r1cfh-yynw</a><br>&gt; &gt; from this thread&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3D5267588">https://bitcoi=
ntalk.org/index.php?topic=3D5267588</a><br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; =
<br>&gt; &gt; The installation script provided by Jambler.io that is the =
basis of my referral website is also publicly published,<br>&gt; &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://github.com/jambler-io/bitcoin-mixer">https://github.com/j=
ambler-io/bitcoin-mixer</a><br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; The disclosure =
for the partner program is available from Jambler.io however and is made =
prominently on my referral website. While it may seem lucrative at first =
I insist all partner profits are reportable on your personal =
income.<br>&gt; &gt; <a =
href=3D"https://jambler.io/become-partner.php">https://jambler.io/become-=
partner.php</a><br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; I am certainly better than =
confident that you appreciate the difference between an open and =
transparent blockchain and the ability of the user to not reveal details =
of the content of their wallet publicly.<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; If =
further clarification is required may I suggest you pay a token and mix =
some Bitcoin wherein our discussion may then have some point of =
reference.<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; KING JAMES HRMH<br>&gt; &gt; Great =
British Empire<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; Regards,<br>&gt; &gt; The =
Australian<br>&gt; &gt; LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (&amp; =
HMRH)<br>&gt; &gt; of Hougun Manor &amp; Glencoe &amp; British =
Empire<br>&gt; &gt; MR. Damian A. James Williamson<br>&gt; &gt; =
Wills<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; et al.<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; =
<br>&gt; &gt; Willtech<br>&gt; &gt; <a =
href=3D"http://www.willtech.com.au">www.willtech.com.au</a><br>&gt; &gt; =
<a href=3D"http://www.go-overt.com">www.go-overt.com</a><br>&gt; &gt; =
and other projects<br>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <br>&gt; &gt; =
earn.com/willtech<br>&gt; &gt; linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson<br>&gt; =
&gt; <br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; m. 0487135719<br>&gt; &gt; f. =
+61261470192<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; This email does =
not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this email if =
misdelivered.<br>&gt; &gt; *From:* Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:arielluaces@gmail.com">arielluaces@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>&g=
t; &gt; *Sent:* Monday, 1 March 2021 12:07 AM<br>&gt; &gt; *To:* LORD =
HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:willtech@live.com.au">willtech@live.com.au</a>&gt;; =
Bitcoin Protocol Discussion &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.l=
inuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;<br>&gt; &gt; *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] =
Taproot NACK <br>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <br>&gt; &gt; Hello LORD HIS EXCELLENCY =
JAMES HRMH<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; I find a striking dichotomy =
between your concern of increased privacy in bitcoin and your link to a =
bitcoin mixer in your signature <a =
href=3D"http://www.go-overt.com">www.go-overt.com</a><br>&gt; &gt; =
<br>&gt; &gt; At first your concerns seemed genuine but after seeing =
your promotion of a bitcoin mixer I'm thinking your concerns may be more =
profit motivated? I can't tell since you failed to disclose your =
relationship with the mixer.<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; Could you please =
clarify your association with the bitcoin mixer and moving forward could =
you please always do proper disclosure any time you're publically =
talking about bitcoin transaction privacy. It's only fair to do so as to =
not mislead people in an attempt to manipulate at worst and just a =
courteous practice at best.<br>&gt; &gt; <br>&gt; &gt; Cheers<br>&gt; =
&gt; Ariel Lorenzo-Luaces<br>&gt; &gt; On Feb 28, 2021, at 4:36 AM, LORD =
HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.l=
inuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote: <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Good Evening, =
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Thank-you for your =
advice&nbsp;&nbsp; @JeremyRubin &lt;<a =
href=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin">https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin<=
/a>&gt;&nbsp; on the basis you advise, &quot;Taproot does not enable =
monero-like privacy features&quot;, I am prepred to withdraw my NACK =
notably that the existing feeatures of Bitcoin MUST be maintained, and =
whereby the UTXO of a transaction is identifiable, the PayTo Address, =
and the amount all without any obfuscation. <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; <br>&gt; =
&gt;&gt; Lightning does not really provide obfuscation, it provides a =
result of a subset of transactions although the operation of the channel =
is observable to the parties. <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; The =
reports I were reading concerning the supposed operation of Taproot =
published in a public media channel may have been speculation or =
misinformation nonetheless it is prudent to conditionally reply as you =
see that I have. It is important not to allow things to slip through the =
cracks. As you may believe may astute reviewers could make a full =
disclosure to this list it is not to be expected. <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; =
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; KING JAMES HRMH <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Great British Empire =
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Regards, <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; The =
Australian <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (&amp; HMRH) =
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; of Hougun Manor &amp; Glencoe &amp; British Empire =
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; MR. Damian A. James Williamson <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Wills =
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; et al. <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; <br>&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Willtech <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; <a =
href=3D"http://www.willtech.com.au">www.willtech.com.au</a> <br>&gt; =
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.go-overt.com">www.go-overt.com</a> =
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; and other projects <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; earn.com/willtech <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; =
linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; =
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; m. 0487135719 <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; f. +61261470192 =
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; This email does =
not constitute a general advice. Please disregard this email if =
misdelivered. <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; *From:* Jeremy &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jlrubin@mit.edu">jlrubin@mit.edu</a>&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; =
*Sent:* Sunday, 28 February 2021 3:14 AM<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; *To:* LORD HIS =
EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:willtech@live.com.au">willtech@live.com.au</a>&gt;; =
Bitcoin Protocol Discussion &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.l=
inuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; *Subject:* Re: [bitcoin-dev] =
Taproot NACK <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; I have good =
news for you: Taproot does not enable monero-like privacy features any =
moreso than already exist in Bitcoin today. At its core, taproot is a =
way to make transactions with embedded smart contracts less expensive, =
done so in a manner that may marginally improve privacy dependent on =
user behavior (but not in the monero-like way you mention). For example, =
it makes it possible for lightning channels to look structurally similar =
to single key wallets, but it does nothing inherently to obfuscate the =
transaction graph as in monero. <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Such =
&quot;monero-like&quot; transaction graph obfuscation may already exist =
in Bitcoin via other techniques (coinjoin, payjoin, coinswap, lightning, =
etc) with or without Taproot, so the point is further moot. <br>&gt; =
&gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; Do you have a source on your reporting? =
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; You may wish to rescind your nack. =
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; -- <br>&gt; =
&gt;&gt; @JeremyRubin &lt;<a =
href=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin">https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin<=
/a>&gt;&nbsp; &lt;<a =
href=3D"https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin">https://twitter.com/JeremyRubin<=
/a>&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt; On Sat, Feb =
27, 2021 at 5:46 AM LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH via bitcoin-dev &lt; =
<a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.l=
inuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote: <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Good Afternoon, =
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; It has been reported that =
Taproot will enable some Monero like features including the ability to =
hide transactions. <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; If that =
is the case I offer a full NACK and let me explain. <br>&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; A part of the benefit of using =
Bitcoin is its honesty. The full transaction is published on the =
blockchain. If that were to change so that transactions may be =
obfuscated from scrutiny then any government would have unlimited =
impetus to ban Bitcoin, and speculation has that is the reason India has =
been reported to have banned cryptocurrencies already. <br>&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; I am in support of the expanded use =
case of Bitcoin without harming the established robust fairness and =
equal equity offered. The core functionality of Bitcoin, its values, =
must remain unaltered. <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; KING =
JAMES HRMH <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Great British Empire <br>&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Regards, <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; The =
Australian <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; LORD HIS EXCELLENCY JAMES HRMH (&amp; =
HMRH) <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; of Hougun Manor &amp; Glencoe &amp; British =
Empire <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; MR. Damian A. James Williamson <br>&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt; Wills <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; et al. =
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt; Willtech <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; <a =
href=3D"http://www.willtech.com.au">www.willtech.com.au</a> <br>&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.go-overt.com">www.go-overt.com</a> =
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; and other projects <br>&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; earn.com/willtech =
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; linkedin.com/in/damianwilliamson <br>&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; m. 0487135719 =
<br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; f. +61261470192 <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; <br>&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; This email does not constitute a =
general advice. Please disregard this email if misdelivered. <br>&gt; =
&gt;&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________ <br>&gt; =
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