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From: Paul Sztorc <truthcoin@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 07:20:36 -0400
Message-ID: <CA+XQW1i-3dfRGr2vy=_P0BuXNbnoR_OmmOGGOmCcNEgkZeT_gg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Tao Effect <contact@taoeffect.com>
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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Generalized sharding protocol for decentralized
 scaling without Miners owning our BTC
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Haha, no. Because you "burned" the coins.

On Oct 10, 2017 1:20 AM, "Tao Effect" <contact@taoeffect.com> wrote:

> Paul,
>
> It's a two-way peg.
>
> There's nothing preventing transfers back to the main chain.
>
> They work in the exact same manner.
>
> Cheers,
> Greg
>
> --
> Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing=
 with
> the NSA.
>
> On Oct 9, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Paul Sztorc <truthcoin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That is only a one-way peg, not a two-way.
>
> In fact, that is exactly what drivechain does, if one chooses parameters
> for the drivechain that make it impossible for any side-to-main transfer =
to
> succeed.
>
> One-way pegs have strong first-mover disadvantages.
>
> Paul
>
> On Oct 9, 2017 9:24 PM, "Tao Effect via bitcoin-dev" <bitcoin-dev@lists.
> linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> Dear list,
>
> In previous arguments over Drivechain (and Drivechain-like proposals) I
> promised that better scaling proposals =E2=80=94 that do not sacrifice Bi=
tcoin's
> security =E2=80=94 would come along.
>
> I planned to do a detailed writeup, but have decided to just send off thi=
s
> email with what I have, because I'm unlikely to have time to write up a
> detailed proposal.
>
> The idea is very simple (and by no means novel*), and I'm sure others hav=
e
> mentioned either exactly it, or similar ideas (e.g. burning coins) before=
.
>
> This is a generic sharding protocol for all blockchains, including Bitcoi=
n.
>
> Users simply say: "My coins on Chain A are going to be sent to Chain B".
>
> Then they burn the coins on Chain A, and create a minting transaction on
> Chain B. The details of how to ensure that coins do not get lost needs to
> be worked out, but I'm fairly certain the folks on this list can figure o=
ut
> those details.
>
> - Thin clients, nodes, and miners, can all very easily verify that said
> action took place, and therefore accept the "newly minted" coins on B as
> valid.
> - Users client software now also knows where to look for the other coins
> (if for some reason it needs to).
>
> This doesn't even need much modification to the Bitcoin protocol as most
> of the verification is done client-side.
>
> It is fully decentralized, and there's no need to give our ownership of
> our coins to miners to get scale.
>
> My sincere apologies if this has been brought up before (in which case, I
> would be very grateful for a link to the proposal).
>
> Cheers,
> Greg Slepak
>
> * This idea is similar in spirit to Interledger.
>
> --
> Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing=
 with
> the NSA.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">Haha, no. Because you &quot;burned&quot; the coins.</div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Oct 10, 2017 1=
:20 AM, &quot;Tao Effect&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:contact@taoeffect.com"=
>contact@taoeffect.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;=
padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">Paul,<div><br></div><=
div>It&#39;s a two-way peg.</div><div><br></div><div>There&#39;s nothing pr=
eventing transfers back to the main chain.</div><div><br></div><div>They wo=
rk in the exact same manner.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Gre=
g<br><div>
<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-s=
tyle:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:norm=
al;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;=
word-spacing:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;=
font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:n=
ormal"><br class=3D"m_8294306076325067848Apple-interchange-newline">--</spa=
n><br style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-s=
tyle:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:norm=
al;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;=
word-spacing:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;=
font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:n=
ormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px=
;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spaci=
ng:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:=
normal;word-spacing:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:=
normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-h=
eight:normal">Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable =
also sharing</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;fo=
nt-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;=
letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;=
white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-vari=
ant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:n=
ormal;line-height:normal">=C2=A0with the NSA.</span>
</div>
<br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Oct 9, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Paul Sz=
torc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:truthcoin@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">truthcoin=
@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class=3D"m_8294306076325067848Apple-inte=
rchange-newline"><div><div dir=3D"auto"><div>That is only a one-way peg, no=
t a two-way.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">In fact, th=
at is exactly what drivechain does, if one chooses parameters for the drive=
chain that make it impossible for any side-to-main transfer to succeed.</di=
v><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">One-way pegs have strong fi=
rst-mover disadvantages.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"=
>Paul<br><div class=3D"gmail_extra" dir=3D"auto"><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote">On Oct 9, 2017 9:24 PM, &quot;Tao Effect via bitcoin-dev&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bit=
coin-dev@lists.<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attributi=
on"><blockquote class=3D"m_8294306076325067848quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:b=
reak-word"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word">Dear list,<div><br></div><di=
v>In previous arguments over Drivechain (and Drivechain-like proposals) I p=
romised that better scaling proposals =E2=80=94 that do not sacrifice Bitco=
in&#39;s security =E2=80=94 would come along.</div><div><br></div><div>I pl=
anned to do a detailed writeup, but have decided to just send off this emai=
l with what I have, because I&#39;m unlikely to have time to write up a det=
ailed proposal.</div><div><br></div><div>The idea is very simple (and by no=
 means novel*), and I&#39;m sure others have mentioned either exactly it, o=
r similar ideas (e.g. burning coins) before.</div><div><br></div><div>This =
is a generic sharding protocol for all blockchains, including Bitcoin.</div=
><div><br></div><div>Users simply say: &quot;My coins on Chain A are going =
to be sent to Chain B&quot;.</div><div><br></div><div>Then they burn the co=
ins on Chain A, and create a minting transaction on Chain B. The details of=
 how to ensure that coins do not get lost needs to be worked out, but I&#39=
;m fairly certain the folks on this list can figure out those details.</div=
><div><br></div><div>- Thin clients, nodes, and miners, can all very easily=
 verify that said action took place, and therefore accept the &quot;newly m=
inted&quot; coins on B as valid.</div><div>- Users client software now also=
 knows where to look for the other coins (if for some reason it needs to).<=
/div><div><br></div><div>This doesn&#39;t even need much modification to th=
e Bitcoin protocol as most of the verification is done client-side.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>It is fully decentralized, and there&#39;s no need to giv=
e our ownership of our coins to miners to get scale.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>My sincere apologies if this has been brought up before (in which case, =
I would be very grateful for a link to the proposal).</div><div><br></div><=
div>Cheers,</div><div>Greg Slepak</div><div><br></div><div>* This idea is s=
imilar in spirit to Interledger.</div><div><br></div><div><div><div><span s=
tyle=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant=
-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text=
-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-va=
riant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:=
normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal">--</span><br styl=
e=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ca=
ps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-in=
dent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-varia=
nt-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:nor=
mal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal"><span style=3D"font-=
family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;=
font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;t=
ext-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-variant-ligatur=
es:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-v=
ariant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal">Please do not email me anythin=
g that you are not comfortable also sharing</span><span style=3D"font-famil=
y:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-=
weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-t=
ransform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-variant-ligatures:no=
rmal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-varian=
t-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal">=C2=A0with the NSA.</span>
</div>

<br></div></div></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>________=
_________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundat<wbr>ion.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-d<wbr>ev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div>

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