path: root/5e/e4dbf271c5106a7cd8fd71b1eee5cec73f9e8a

Delivery-date: Fri, 23 May 2025 14:12:04 -0700
Received: from mail-yw1-f188.google.com ([209.85.128.188])
	by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps  (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
	(Exim 4.94.2)
	(envelope-from <bitcoindev+bncBC4PBDNG2YCRBGOJYPAQMGQEAS7ZV3Y@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1uIZgR-0000Yu-Mo
	for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Fri, 23 May 2025 14:12:04 -0700
Received: by mail-yw1-f188.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-70dd69249e0sf5941447b3.3
        for <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>; Fri, 23 May 2025 14:12:03 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1748034718; cv=pass;
        d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
        b=Z0jVrk+97KZGeikPQ3vx0f48ojiopWky92Fr4+wVHGQxcXVYMHl1xxbn8PiGB2k4q5
         WvTN9KCnBDlLoFAWbptIUgqFUsh8FvQ9po1aja/M2mZKqWvb5ZBSdw4EvR1gWlGnnjK8
         nl67CZG2jJFeR4wMGZASLx3YJeEByyMTGT0o88+/WtPSa6t54d/LbXdx3eeRAbSUwV1X
         lDvfCwbLlkVVBx/mZrKS2w9rn+x8++xVNhHUXM+pt/IJ0ksqcjt5SgHfIb6rFRjhQaa0
         i/1p7mdvWd11Nj87Ll5awvsruLUK0KAh2OSeGo9zF7wq5eD7AoSgX0rRH+3Pv9pFttzO
         ReZQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
        h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
         :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:reply-to:cc:to:subject:message-id
         :date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:dkim-signature;
        bh=j1dzLCt0BjkD5kTLDJMzmmIo2w9MLHdJ81a4Dl6WJ3w=;
        fh=W6kxbSeouukL6IFo4rA0Atd9cDNIibpTwBkR7+N6+24=;
        b=VLQqJkfN/HYWX/aTHMqyNZB5zODKFmMCZVLpvZj72LTjx3VmmlyBx1QcESE2k0vkZA
         Go431+m45F0AIwtLG304WfgNBkuOfw7h2+VdKjMnapkRGQxLLdr65YWDSDSE9PKInArv
         YZGoRosqRLSnbNTg4xwNog7Hc0psAudfL9knJ2GSsTAObVEYvAzohmtld7GO3YO+kqca
         CajK14SozBuaNVMyo71BtpJWaJWexeQDdnZ7OVLAJF5gsdDgZ1sthfp/IRTgsNfKSzGo
         U4tNh7oiDTAOV2jiVX9JA/eOkx4Zaz3Je8k3CBxOzrEh0BvkWIt/PLeV7Z9kPxN6iHg8
         8JKA==;
        darn=gnusha.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com;
       dkim=pass header.i=@blockstream.com header.s=google header.b=F2lErF1o;
       spf=pass (google.com: domain of roconnor@blockstream.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::633 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=roconnor@blockstream.com;
       dmarc=pass (p=QUARANTINE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=blockstream.com;
       dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1748034718; x=1748639518; darn=gnusha.org;
        h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
         :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:reply-to
         :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:cc:to:subject
         :message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc
         :subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
        bh=j1dzLCt0BjkD5kTLDJMzmmIo2w9MLHdJ81a4Dl6WJ3w=;
        b=bG3rf4ldElOwHiF7QjdpL318fHq7Go83Fbv+nmvPziRazE8v9H/+I0I1l4t1q/qrsp
         L10p5AMn7y6fl6+2uaqzDc8GXBrkqIithffuDrpwRM43Ulwv4e1fsoMcDCx+ccCN5DlP
         EQI3r6726JTUtTWIHc6VV0Yu1BK0gkEPx8yA3lhC06tTQKnld/q9EwYuk0Jq0x4rm0Hw
         PqT52+HkD296T7KnhbfXF6nnzzC7KFaUmD96w1k/67/PNV1Rt0jn1KTCu9kLt96ByZO5
         WGp86/BAhZX3knLx+IjMJEYgfR7DOeBmHoseUwQSOEf9WUaoGXCxzEMLlm6G/nSt/KDk
         OmDQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1748034718; x=1748639518;
        h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
         :list-id:mailing-list:precedence:reply-to
         :x-original-authentication-results:x-original-sender:cc:to:subject
         :message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version
         :x-beenthere:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id
         :reply-to;
        bh=j1dzLCt0BjkD5kTLDJMzmmIo2w9MLHdJ81a4Dl6WJ3w=;
        b=r1rgSc4h+94AIQDtkqzvwURYigMsoOHWGolTnRiJapvLM4ZhjGCNb57cRATSK8Rzn0
         +Lbx1h7I7w0PqLvS4orWbDj7oI5y22q5bfGh1sE1yBuz7z1Jyo2I2K/GWohmHHc6A5Wm
         Wdg2Jn9QYSPsobl4S49krAtJoADwo7Sr+5L0IbPogdvrwep3Ktt9vCf6BQgl8Bvy9fc7
         DTq2jmgiYcR8lRFM/YQknewHhllOu2pbrRUxEUtO5EYySKAzjix1GkXYE1c1TVrvaGjS
         bT/AEMCIKCmjI6GzJlpEN8uQO6rtIa3NzCxMcFmMnzdw4m9cDcp+4NCTtEMt1AgTQ8Jv
         G10Q==
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCUInW+Vt/7IQj3gPkC8WLX6AwCbMlyEM6zcU5Zgm5M/Dh+aO+IUg/pAB8HKWjMrY510sYaB4g02vvv4@gnusha.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzIa+J6hL3PR112G9Us4xD8rnTfAbP+o+9+XIPqHBow84NSW9rk
	0n74KAyXOADELW0ccFRGSOAm8oAM2nmHiMhqNhXlo7dhBPO1wxNYxqdI
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGSssm9l4fYoEA8BVT4d4mRb4cHGLS766k96XBPm4FoEIE+SZhOvwa0JC0DNr39zGt1I52rIA==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:1029:b0:e79:100d:5a29 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e7d91a2a226mr1174700276.38.1748034717805;
        Fri, 23 May 2025 14:11:57 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; h=AVT/gBFpcWGhBjeb2gVIrBXV06kti6QlQw0lIdNA1SONtcbu/Q==
Received: by 2002:a25:3a07:0:b0:e7d:6000:9f13 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e7d9202c078ls284498276.1.-pod-prod-05-us;
 Fri, 23 May 2025 14:11:53 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:6f0f:b0:70e:1874:b915 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-70e2d993e8fmr8921917b3.10.1748034713579;
        Fri, 23 May 2025 14:11:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 2002:a05:690c:2d04:b0:70e:2cf8:9db8 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-70e2cf8b6cams7b3;
        Fri, 23 May 2025 13:45:35 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:4b89:b0:70d:ff2a:d686 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-70e2daaea2fmr6643547b3.28.1748033134414;
        Fri, 23 May 2025 13:45:34 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1748033134; cv=none;
        d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
        b=HhjOVPihH/2XUX5XzJZ4UgETCvJpB2SWSbkhR4KlUDENXXlnf3gLB6DuiJaeBN1xbb
         UWvo2pwmBn4hE+yz5VY2HUPwGDePqmna23kI4fyuzZ29vc7iMP5iO/bGVPkvuGABhiNi
         EuEu0xiRiCRYbkHF6bcgLOEIQPbzo4fjTlf/H4nzxWEZ58Me9UNF+kQI/nHBc/WR/yZG
         TPz5MPgiJsBxIZIDSnjiNXJyyPdfK5ujkIMBRfzt2/rSsWeo4xFE1PAcAJBJMtEUvyC3
         9UQiOcdfotCce1DT5JertptR9QQtRto6DlsDqksxhzuNfefRCdVRdURB/lziTce6UUdn
         0ePA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605;
        h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references
         :mime-version:dkim-signature;
        bh=3FqlL5i3y6Bp6axkK48J8eo3ziJLEfdV6eLUKc/SX38=;
        fh=/YjgnsghaA3pt4+dPTSGC/uW8wSzfrrCiZ4aVJWipfQ=;
        b=VE0KMW2G45GNYHQSb+slpmkikQyh53A94eh9hOYLfmvgaSNHXHxeGA3hBVAt0IEppz
         GYuAc/vhJKwZDahNJSa0PnI7+YtMb5X8aLxIyty0c17KiNbxTT9mhCZava/YL5cK8lrx
         YbibaHLmEP+0z+u9b6oZ4NCufIXBIH175m5iFOPx7DkfeV5E5aaTfT5UbIj0i0lZJL29
         /CRZIbIu4IKKktrGhiiGHK5sJ/7zXE2b4gy59wEqMgqlVkjYploeBaEi8vBgFygwlH+v
         4H5LEWHWDn36yT1ki2aZ8tmCXZVO4F6MHqCCkoAOVQsPTHATN0KVH/SV3UfP2LRYh9U4
         AHGA==;
        dara=google.com
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com;
       dkim=pass header.i=@blockstream.com header.s=google header.b=F2lErF1o;
       spf=pass (google.com: domain of roconnor@blockstream.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::633 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=roconnor@blockstream.com;
       dmarc=pass (p=QUARANTINE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=blockstream.com;
       dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
Received: from mail-pl1-x633.google.com (mail-pl1-x633.google.com. [2607:f8b0:4864:20::633])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 00721157ae682-70e26c63663si226787b3.1.2025.05.23.13.45.34
        for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
        (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
        Fri, 23 May 2025 13:45:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of roconnor@blockstream.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::633 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::633;
Received: by mail-pl1-x633.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-232059c0b50so2826895ad.2
        for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>; Fri, 23 May 2025 13:45:34 -0700 (PDT)
X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctLtfdOTAPXRP5BlzwmDKI/JkD6qFuXFPAK9BSENTkOHcft6/78C71J69iTEX7
	cCNiICsx3REhy6ROYaKOoTl2C4lt05S/aavNVv2py5n+Hu/BJhJVMH9E4rB9RoMtaj4bD1kNZgk
	8jhtoSV89s6973ETriLqRmrO99pfXPzFPt
X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:e807:b0:231:d0e9:2b84 with SMTP id
 d9443c01a7336-23414fb2d50mr10595685ad.37.1748033133402; Fri, 23 May 2025
 13:45:33 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <a139ee2e-473c-487b-a9b0-e68013fdb7cen@googlegroups.com>
 <CAL9hkF1ptPqvjNqpBHv3_WkEf0cL5HhNudT9SNXZ9DfzpupyOA@mail.gmail.com> <09A940A2-122A-445E-82EA-1B4E32AC7E34@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <09A940A2-122A-445E-82EA-1B4E32AC7E34@gmail.com>
From: "'Russell O'Connor' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List" <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Date: Fri, 23 May 2025 16:45:22 -0400
X-Gm-Features: AX0GCFtj5z4N1BYD4_rD2IDBA56DePcZ7bJZ4Sg4ynZRn0-n1QmP2U9nd_gE66g
Message-ID: <CAMZUoK=A8T5N4ekR7r6+cfaxMCYL=a5_v0kqdPNVDzgcUY9xrg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] BIP39 Extension for Manual Seed Phrase Creation
To: Eric <nerdyrugbyguy@gmail.com>
Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f8f6470635d3ad5a"
X-Original-Sender: roconnor@blockstream.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com;       dkim=pass
 header.i=@blockstream.com header.s=google header.b=F2lErF1o;       spf=pass
 (google.com: domain of roconnor@blockstream.com designates
 2607:f8b0:4864:20::633 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=roconnor@blockstream.com;
       dmarc=pass (p=QUARANTINE sp=QUARANTINE dis=NONE) header.from=blockstream.com;
       dara=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com
X-Original-From: "Russell O'Connor" <roconnor@blockstream.com>
Reply-To: "Russell O'Connor" <roconnor@blockstream.com>
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bitcoindev.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512
List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/post>, <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <https://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bitcoindev+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev
List-Subscribe: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>, <mailto:bitcoindev+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+786775582512+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
 <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

--000000000000f8f6470635d3ad5a
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

FWIW, BIP-93 (codex32) was designed for both human and computer generated
randomness.  Codex32 also supports human and computer generated secret
sharing.

See also <https://secretcodex32.com/>.

On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 11:35=E2=80=AFAM Eric <nerdyrugbyguy@gmail.com> wro=
te:

> Quoting BIP39: "This guide is meant to be a way to transport
> computer-generated randomness with a human-readable transcription."
>
> BIP39 was meant to capture computer generated randomness.  Manually
> calculating the sha256 hash is not practical.
>
> Using a separate tool to compute the checksum or last word is cumbersome
> and requires users to have a more advanced understanding of cryptography.
>
>
> On May 23, 2025 8:29:27 AM MDT, Kyle Honeycutt <coinables@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Respectfully, a "black box" is not trusted to generate mnemonic
>> passphrases, the standard is well-defined and generally followed across
>> wallets.
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki#Generatin=
g_the_mnemonic
>>
>> Users can create their own mnemonics in a trustless way following the
>> BIP39 standard published in 2013.
>>
>> Using any entropy source a user can perform a SHA256 hash on the entropy
>> to get a 256 bit string, then convert that to binary. Perform another
>> SHA256 hash on the binary, take the first 8 bits and solve for checksum =
and
>> then solve the rest of mnemonic words.
>>
>> On Fri, May 23, 2025, 6:15=E2=80=AFAM Eric Kvam <nerdyrugbyguy@gmail.com=
> wrote:
>>
>>> *Motivation*
>>> Make it easy for users to manually create their seed phrase so that the=
y
>>> don't have to trust a "black box" and allow for encoding derivation pat=
h in
>>> seed phrase to simplify recovery
>>>
>>> *How*
>>> Use every eighth word from the wordlist to generate 16 word phrases wit=
h
>>> 128 bits of entropy (no checksum).  The most significant eight bits of =
each
>>> word are used as entropy.  The least significant three bits of each wor=
d
>>> specify the derivation path.
>>>
>>>    - *000* Derivation Path Not Specified
>>>    - *001* m/44'/0'/0'
>>>    - *010* m/49'/0'/0'
>>>    - *011* m/84'/0'/0'
>>>    - *100* m/48'/0'/0'/2'
>>>    - *101* m/86'/0'/0'
>>>
>>> Up to seven derivation paths can be specified if all words have the sam=
e
>>> least significant bits.  If the least significant bits of each word var=
y,
>>> there are 48 bits that can be used to encode meta-data.  As long as
>>> meta-data is limited to certain allowable values, this provides a mecha=
nism
>>> for error detection, similar to a checksum.
>>>
>>> *Benefits of Suggested Implementation*
>>>
>>>    - The word length determines how the seed phrase should be
>>>    interpreted.  User only needs to know how many words they have and h=
ow many
>>>    words the wallet supports to check for compatibility with this exten=
sion
>>>    - Uses same wordlist to represent the same entropy as a 12 word
>>>    phrase (could be a revision to BIP39 instead of a new BIP)
>>>    - Manual procedure is very simple, each derivation path can use a
>>>    shortened 256 word list which enjoys improved alphabetical separatio=
n of
>>>    words
>>>    - May prevent naive word selections which aren't limited to every
>>>    eighth word (similar to what checksum does)
>>>    - Can be extended further.  For example, a 32 word phrase with the
>>>    same entropy as a 24 word phrase could also be added.  We can keep a=
dding
>>>    formats with unique word length and keep adding uses for the meta da=
ta as
>>>    needed.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/a139ee2e-473c-487b-a9b0-e6=
8013fdb7cen%40googlegroups.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/a139ee2e-473c-487b-a9b0-e=
68013fdb7cen%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter>
>>> .
>>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/09A940A2-122A-445E-82EA-1B4E=
32AC7E34%40gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/09A940A2-122A-445E-82EA-1B4=
E32AC7E34%40gmail.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter>
> .
>

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/=
CAMZUoK%3DA8T5N4ekR7r6%2BcfaxMCYL%3Da5_v0kqdPNVDzgcUY9xrg%40mail.gmail.com.

--000000000000f8f6470635d3ad5a
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>FWIW, BIP-93 (codex32) was designed =
for both human and computer generated randomness.=C2=A0 Codex32 also suppor=
ts human and computer generated secret sharing.</div><div><br></div><div>Se=
e also &lt;<a href=3D"https://secretcodex32.com/" target=3D"_blank">https:/=
/secretcodex32.com/</a>&gt;.</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 11:35=E2=80=AFAM Eric=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nerdyrugbyguy@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">nerdyrugb=
yguy@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div><div dir=3D"auto">Quoting BIP39: &quot;This guide is mea=
nt to be a way to transport computer-generated randomness with a human-read=
able transcription.&quot;<br><br>BIP39 was meant to capture computer genera=
ted randomness.=C2=A0 Manually calculating the sha256 hash is not practical=
.<br><br>Using a separate tool to compute the checksum or last word is cumb=
ersome and requires users to have a more advanced understanding of cryptogr=
aphy.</div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto">On May 23, =
2025 8:29:27 AM MDT, Kyle Honeycutt &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:coinables@gmail.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">coinables@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><p dir=3D"ltr">Respectfully, a &quot;black box&quot; is no=
t trusted to generate mnemonic passphrases, the standard is well-defined an=
d generally followed across wallets.</p><p dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"https://g=
ithub.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki#Generating_the_mnemon=
ic" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.=
mediawiki#Generating_the_mnemonic</a></p><p>Users can create their own mnem=
onics in a trustless way following the BIP39 standard published in 2013.=C2=
=A0</p><p>Using any entropy source a user can perform a SHA256 hash on the =
entropy to get a 256 bit string, then convert that to binary. Perform anoth=
er SHA256 hash on the binary, take the first 8 bits and solve for checksum =
and then solve the rest of mnemonic words.</p></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri=
, May 23, 2025, 6:15=E2=80=AFAM Eric Kvam &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nerdyrugbyg=
uy@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">nerdyrugbyguy@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><=
/div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><b><u>Motivation</u>=
</b><div>Make it easy for users to manually create their seed phrase so tha=
t they don&#39;t have to trust a &quot;black box&quot; and allow for encodi=
ng derivation path in seed phrase to simplify recovery</div><div><br><div><=
div><b><u>How</u></b></div></div><div>Use every eighth word from the wordli=
st to generate 16 word phrases with 128 bits of entropy (no checksum).=C2=
=A0 The most significant eight bits of each word are used as entropy.=C2=A0=
 The least significant three bits of each word specify the derivation path.=
</div><div><ul><li><b>000</b> Derivation Path Not Specified</li><li><b>001<=
/b> m/44&#39;/0&#39;/0&#39;</li><li><b>010</b>  m/49&#39;/0&#39;/0&#39;</li=
><li><b>011</b> m/84&#39;/0&#39;/0&#39;</li><li><b>100</b>  m/48&#39;/0&#39=
;/0&#39;/2&#39;</li><li><b>101</b> m/86&#39;/0&#39;/0&#39;</li></ul><div>Up=
 to seven derivation paths can be specified if all words have the same leas=
t significant bits.=C2=A0 If the least significant bits of each word vary, =
there are 48 bits that can be used to encode meta-data.=C2=A0 As long as me=
ta-data is limited to certain allowable values, this provides a mechanism f=
or error detection, similar to a checksum.</div></div></div><div><br></div>=
<div><b><u>Benefits of Suggested Implementation</u></b></div><div><ul><li>T=
he word length determines how the seed phrase should be interpreted.=C2=A0 =
User only needs to know how many words they have and how many words the wal=
let supports to check for compatibility with this extension</li><li>Uses sa=
me wordlist to represent the same entropy as a 12 word phrase (could be a r=
evision to BIP39 instead of a new BIP)</li><li>Manual procedure is very sim=
ple, each derivation path can use a shortened 256 word list which enjoys im=
proved alphabetical separation of words</li><li>May prevent naive word sele=
ctions which aren&#39;t limited to every eighth word (similar to what check=
sum does)</li><li>Can be extended further.=C2=A0 For example, a 32 word phr=
ase with the same entropy as a 24 word phrase could also be added.=C2=A0 We=
 can keep adding formats with unique word length and keep adding uses for t=
he meta data as needed.</li></ul></div>

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List&quot; group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<b=
r>
To view this discussion visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/=
bitcoindev/a139ee2e-473c-487b-a9b0-e68013fdb7cen%40googlegroups.com?utm_med=
ium=3Demail&amp;utm_source=3Dfooter" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/a139ee2e-473c-487b-a9b0-e68013f=
db7cen%40googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List&quot; group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=
=3D"_blank">bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To view this discussion visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/=
bitcoindev/09A940A2-122A-445E-82EA-1B4E32AC7E34%40gmail.com?utm_medium=3Dem=
ail&amp;utm_source=3Dfooter" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/=
msgid/bitcoindev/09A940A2-122A-445E-82EA-1B4E32AC7E34%40gmail.com</a>.<br>
</blockquote></div></div>
</div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;Bitcoin Development Mailing List&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bitcoind=
ev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To view this discussion visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/=
bitcoindev/CAMZUoK%3DA8T5N4ekR7r6%2BcfaxMCYL%3Da5_v0kqdPNVDzgcUY9xrg%40mail=
.gmail.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter">https://groups.google.co=
m/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAMZUoK%3DA8T5N4ekR7r6%2BcfaxMCYL%3Da5_v0kqdPNVDzgcUY9=
xrg%40mail.gmail.com</a>.<br />

--000000000000f8f6470635d3ad5a--