path: root/59/0495cb79e057b05c5f4d50c9e3874aeca685d8

Return-Path: <alicexbt@protonmail.com>
Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org (smtp4.osuosl.org [IPv6:2605:bc80:3010::137])
 by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB1B0C0032
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:06:05 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6695A4F25E
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:06:05 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp4.osuosl.org 6695A4F25E
Authentication-Results: smtp4.osuosl.org;
 dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=protonmail.com header.i=@protonmail.com
 header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=protonmail3 header.b=ot7K62C3
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5
 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
 DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001,
 SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from smtp4.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (smtp4.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id G9WgFM4BBlKF
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:06:04 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from mail-0201.mail-europe.com (mail-0201.mail-europe.com
 [51.77.79.158])
 by smtp4.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60BD04F258
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:06:03 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp4.osuosl.org 60BD04F258
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com;
 s=protonmail3; t=1698426355; x=1698685555;
 bh=xJBRZGbPOSHw/n24hh+UdpiovtZMAEEwkvAsb3267Z8=;
 h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:
 Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID:
 Message-ID:BIMI-Selector;
 b=ot7K62C3WssxKSzgkGhnER4Y1rYU2QWMpQWWO7OGcCizbmFXAItB7ysVAZnpur9Od
 wt2+WPLQisOqGvs8YOvyWR6mWdSFu3g+lmvs2vwAu5rAN6A9p0dkDwmCY9HGYq/Kcs
 hM1hGZXB94fdVSp0hn48UvNNFIMCZW1YeQGig67j04IKE3rDHIRDD9iv/X35AqE6i7
 AergZ3i4mmRm/iy+UY2ZGTBgxpI/wzP97CSabxere8CHb3/1fqh42hElYEIn3udzXf
 OKKa796NJdoKKwtQr1YPZ5cLKQV+6JPwUbebjmiuAeoqyFsgzsThYNjYpJONkXis4T
 4SA63fC2+9keQ==
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:05:46 +0000
To: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
From: alicexbt <alicexbt@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <JrzK-LiMl1adxad-gJWpFNCIXg924YG9cqsginHU2zCgTeCEhvhExnL_E1_PdW8kZGnW-_-CEuS-tNWY0dHUi-lfBucjpLQknqtZUuA7MrA=@protonmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <ZTrkJrqzBB0e9dXB@petertodd.org>
References: <CANLPe+OQBsPiTrLEfz=SMxU8TkM_1XNfJQeq8gt2V6vDu=+Zxw@mail.gmail.com>
 <ZTaSwtvctmIiF74k@petertodd.org> <ZTawwRqGN4XUUu8C@camus>
 <5b641ddc-a30b-4dd7-2481-6d9cdb459359@dashjr.org>
 <CAO3Pvs_uUtCfhayU=3LCtpNGtkcDr=H0AM65bhNJcTMuBzWn_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <ZTrkJrqzBB0e9dXB@petertodd.org>
Feedback-ID: 40602938:user:proton
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 28 Oct 2023 00:03:28 +0000
Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Ordinals BIP PR
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, 
 <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, 
 <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:06:05 -0000

Hi Peter,

> At that point, why are we bothering with numbers at all? If BIP #'s aren'=
t
memorable, what is their purpose? Why not just let people publish ideas on
their own web pages and figure out what we're going to call those ideas on =
a
case-by-case basis.

I agree people can maintain BIPs in their own repositories. I will list all=
 the=20
BIPs that are not maintained in https://github.com/bitcoin/bips repository =
on=20
https://bips.wiki

/dev/fd0
floppy disk guy

Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

------- Original Message -------
On Friday, October 27th, 2023 at 3:41 AM, Peter Todd via bitcoin-dev <bitco=
in-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:


> On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 03:56:55PM -0700, Olaoluwa Osuntokun via bitcoin-=
dev wrote:
>=20
> > TL;DR: let's just use an automated system to assign BIP numbers, so we =
can
> > spend time on more impactful things.
>=20
>=20
> Yes, an easy way to do that is to use a mathematical function, like SHA25=
6(<bip contents>)
>=20
> or Pubkey(<bip author controlled secret key>).
>=20
>=20
> Of course, that's also silly, as we might as well use URLs at that point.=
..
>=20
> > IIUC, one the primary roles of the dedicated BIP maintainers is just to=
 hand
> > out BIP numbers for documents. Supposedly with this privilege, the BIP
> > maintainer is able to tastefully assign related BIPs to consecutive num=
bers,
> > and also reserve certain BIP number ranges for broad categories, like 3=
xx
> > for p2p changes (just an example).
> >=20
> > To my knowledge, the methodology for such BIP number selection isn't
> > published anywhere, and is mostly arbitrary. As motioned in this thread=
,
> > some perceive this manual process as a gatekeeping mechanism, and often
> > ascribe favoritism as the reason why PR X got a number immediately, but=
 PR Y
> > has waited N months w/o an answer.
> >=20
> > Every few years we go through an episode where someone is rightfully up=
set
> > that they haven't been assigned a BIP number after following the requis=
ite
> > process. Most recently, another BIP maintainer was appointed, with the =
hope
> > that the second maintainer would help to alleviate some of the subjecti=
ve
> > load of the position. Fast forward to this email thread, and it doesn't
> > seem like adding more BIP maintainers will actually help with the issue=
 of
> > BIP number assignment.
> >=20
> > Instead, what if we just removed the subjective human element from the
> > process, and switched to using PR numbers to assign BIPs? Now instead o=
f
> > attempting to track down a BIP maintainer at the end of a potentially
> > involved review+iteration period, PRs are assigned BIP numbers as soon =
as
> > they're opened and we have one less thing to bikeshed and gatekeep.
> >=20
> > One down side of this is that assuming the policy is adopted, we'll sor=
ta
> > sky rocket the BIP number space. At the time of writing of this email, =
the
> > next PR number looks to be 1508. That doesn't seem like a big deal to m=
e,
> > but we could offset that by some value, starting at the highest current=
ly
> > manually assigned BIP number. BIP numbers would no longer always be
> > contiguous, but that's sort of already the case.
> >=20
> > There's also the matter of related BIPs, like the segwit series (BIPs 1=
41,
> > 142, 143, 144, and 145). For these, we can use a suffix scheme to indic=
ate
> > the BIP lineage. So if BIP 141 was the first PR, then BIP 142 was opene=
d
> > later, the OP can declare the BIP 142 is BIP 141.2 or BIP 141-2. I don'=
t
> > think it would be too difficult to find a workable scheme.
>=20
>=20
> At that point, why are we bothering with numbers at all? If BIP #'s aren'=
t
> memorable, what is their purpose? Why not just let people publish ideas o=
n
> their own web pages and figure out what we're going to call those ideas o=
n a
> case-by-case basis.
>=20
> All this gets back to my original point: a functioning BIP system is
> inherently centralized and involves human gatekeepers who inevitably have=
 to
> apply standards to approve BIPs. You can't avoid this as long as you want=
 a BIP
> system.
>=20
> --
> https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev