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> I don't think that Bitcoin should be reliant upon courts or governments
to defend itself against attacks of any form.

Agree 100%. Plus yeah, lotsa luck getting any success via those channels...

But assuming the answer to the perceived problem is to =E2=80=9Cfight fire =
with
fire=E2=80=9D (using social / marketing based efforts) who =E2=80=9Cshould=
=E2=80=9D pick up the
mantle here? Without inciting riots by asking the question, wouldn=E2=80=99=
t that
ostensibly be something the Bitcoin Foundation would lead on here? <ducks
and runs for cover>

In any case, it=E2=80=99s frustrating to watch the ongoing FUD and scammery=
 going
unanswered in any =E2=80=9Cofficial=E2=80=9D capacity.


On February 13, 2018 at 7:25:35 AM, Jameson Lopp via bitcoin-dev (
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org) wrote:

If I'm understanding the problem being stated correctly:

"Bitcoin is under a branding attack by fork coins."

The proposed solution is to disincentivize fork coins from using the word
Bitcoin by altering the license terms. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me
that the words of the license are basically useless unless there is an
entity that intends to make use of court systems to threaten noncompliant
projects into submission.

In my opinion, the perceived attack on Bitcoin here is social /
marketing-based, thus it makes sense that any defense against said attack
should also be social / marketing-based. I don't think that Bitcoin should
be reliant upon courts or governments to defend itself against attacks of
any form.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:25 AM, Natanael via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

>
>
> Den 13 feb. 2018 15:07 skrev "JOSE FEMENIAS CA=C3=91UELO via bitcoin-dev"=
 <
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>:
>
> ***
> NO PART OF THIS SOFTWARE CAN BE INCLUDED IN ANY OTHER PROJECT THAT USES
> THE NAME BITCOIN AS PART OF ITS NAME AND/OR ITS MARKETING MATERIAL UNLESS
> THE SOFTWARE PRODUCED BY THAT PROJECT IS FULLY COMPATIBLE WITH THE BITCOI=
N
> (CORE) BLOCKCHAIN
> ***
>
>
> That's better solved with trademarks. (whoever would be the trademark
> holder - Satoshi?)
>
> This would also prohibit any reimplementation that's not formally verifie=
d
> to be perfectly compatible from using the name.
>
> It also adds legal uncertainty.
>
> Another major problem is that it neither affects anybody forking older
> versions of Bitcoin, not people using existing independent blockchain
> implementations and renaming them Bitcoin-Whatsoever.
>
> And what happens when an old version is technically incompatible with a
> future version by the Core team due to not understanding various new
> softforks? Which version wins the right to the name?
>
> Also, being unable to even mention Bitcoin is overkill.
>
> The software license also don't affect the blockchain data.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>
>
_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev

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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><d=
iv id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:1=
3px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">&gt; I don&#39;t thi=
nk that Bitcoin should be reliant upon courts or governments to defend itse=
lf against attacks of any form.</div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"=
font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px=
;line-height:auto"><br></div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"font-fam=
ily:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-he=
ight:auto">Agree 100%. Plus yeah, lotsa luck getting any success via those =
channels...</div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"font-family:Helvetic=
a,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto"><=
br></div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;=
font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">But assum=
ing the answer to the perceived problem is to =E2=80=9Cfight fire with fire=
=E2=80=9D (using social / marketing based efforts) who =E2=80=9Cshould=E2=
=80=9D pick up the mantle here? Without inciting riots by asking the questi=
on, wouldn=E2=80=99t that ostensibly be something the Bitcoin Foundation wo=
uld lead on here? &lt;ducks and runs for cover&gt;</div><div id=3D"bloop_cu=
stomfont" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,=
0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto"><br></div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont=
" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0)=
;margin:0px;line-height:auto">In any case, it=E2=80=99s frustrating to watc=
h the ongoing FUD and scammery going unanswered in any =E2=80=9Cofficial=E2=
=80=9D capacity.</div> <br> <div class=3D"bloop_sign" id=3D"bloop_sign_1518=
536036721418752"></div> <br><p class=3D"airmail_on">On February 13, 2018 at=
 7:25:35 AM, Jameson Lopp via bitcoin-dev (<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@li=
sts.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>) wrote:<=
/p> <blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq"><span><div><div></div><div=
>


<title></title>


<div dir=3D"ltr">If I&#39;m understanding the problem being stated
correctly:<br>
<br>
&quot;Bitcoin is under a branding attack by fork coins.&quot;
<div><br></div>
<div>The proposed solution is to disincentivize fork coins from
using the word Bitcoin by altering the license terms. I&#39;m not a
lawyer, but it seems to me that the words of the license are
basically useless unless there is an entity that intends to make
use of court systems to threaten noncompliant projects into
submission.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>In my opinion, the perceived attack on Bitcoin here is social
/ marketing-based, thus it makes sense that any defense against
said attack should also be social / marketing-based. I don&#39;t think
that Bitcoin should be reliant upon courts or governments to defend
itself against attacks of any form.</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:25 AM, Natanael
via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.l=
inuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org=
</a>&gt;</span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div><span class=3D""><br></span>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><span class=3D""><br></span>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span class=3D"">Den 13 feb. 2018 15:07
skrev &quot;JOSE FEMENIAS CA=C3=91UELO via bitcoin-dev&quot; &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">bitcoin-de=
v@lists.<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt;:</span>
<blockquote class=3D"m_4333531158757201305quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span class=3D"">***<br>
NO PART OF THIS SOFTWARE CAN BE INCLUDED IN ANY OTHER PROJECT THAT
USES THE NAME BITCOIN AS PART OF ITS NAME AND/OR ITS MARKETING
MATERIAL UNLESS THE SOFTWARE PRODUCED BY THAT PROJECT IS FULLY
COMPATIBLE WITH THE BITCOIN (CORE) BLOCKCHAIN<br>
***<br></span></blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><span class=3D""><br></span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">That&#39;s better solved with trademarks. (whoever
would be the trademark holder - Satoshi?)=C2=A0=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">This would also prohibit any reimplementation
that&#39;s not formally verified to be perfectly compatible from using
the name.=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">It also adds legal uncertainty.=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Another major problem is that it neither affects
anybody forking older versions of Bitcoin, not people using
existing independent blockchain implementations and renaming them
Bitcoin-Whatsoever.=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">And what happens when an old version is technically
incompatible with a future version by the Core team due to not
understanding various new softforks? Which version wins the right
to the name?=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Also, being unable to even mention Bitcoin is
overkill.=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">The software license also don&#39;t affect the
blockchain data.=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>
<div dir=3D"auto">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<blockquote class=3D"m_4333531158757201305quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.=
<wbr>linuxfoundation.org</a><br>

<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr>org=
/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-<wbr>dev</a><br>

<br></blockquote>
</div>
<br></div>


_______________________________________________
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sts.linuxfoundation.org</a>
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ev">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a>
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