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From: Craig Raw <craigraw@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 12:23:59 +0200
Message-ID: <CAPR5oBNbYHwpUPrG6Qp0N-7-+LfVH8U55DZzOXHsPMJtp6+YYQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: dentondevelopment <dentondevelopment@protonmail.com>, 
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] bip48 proposal
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+1

It would be greatly beneficial to have a referenceable standard for the
convention that everyone (afaik) is following anyway. I think the current
scope is now correct and agree with Fontaine's comments on the feedback.

Craig

On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 10:17 PM dentondevelopment via bitcoin-dev <
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Just wanted to give an update on progress for the "bip48" proposal.
>
> There was some discussion on Twitter between a few multi-sig wallet devs:
> https://twitter.com/fullynoded/status/1339374947228008448?s=3D21
>
> A few key points were brought up:
>
> 1. We should not define a `script_type` as a path level
>
> The explicit purpose of this BIP is to define an already existing standar=
d
> that is used in practice across multi-sig wallets. In order to do that we
> must define a script_type in the path otherwise "loss of funds" could occ=
ur
> and backwards compatibility broken.
>
> 2. Another point brought up was that no-one uses the legacy derivation
> path m/48'/0'/0'/1', in practice all "legacy" p2sh multi-sig wallets use
> bip45.
>
> I agree and have removed all references to legacy p2sh derivations in the
> proposed bip.
>
> 3. We could possibly include a defined "wild card" in the script_type
> level to define any future address types (e.g. taproot)
>
> I agree this could be useful and think Ben Kaufman's suggestion of using
> m/48'/0'/0'/1' for this purpose makes sense, however I also think a futur=
e
> multi-sig standard for new address types may well be suited for a differe=
nt
> BIP which could also address concern #1 around including `script_type` at
> all.
>
> Therefore I have not yet added any mention of "wild card" in the proposed
> bip but kept strictly to p2sh-p2wsh and p2wsh derivations as used in mode=
rn
> day wallets.
>
> I have create a PR https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1072 so that
> anyone may easily comment on it and any concerns can be raised.
>
> I think the community needs this and it is well over due.  I have gotten
> positive feedback and support from other devs.
>
> Feedback welcome.
>
> Cheers,
> Fontaine
>
>
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>
> =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original =
Message =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90
> On Friday, December 18, 2020 12:08 PM, Luke Dashjr <luke@dashjr.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for explaining where instructions are lacking.
> >
> > How does this look?
> > https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1046/files
> >
> > On Friday 18 December 2020 01:44:27 dentondevelopment wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Luke,
> > > It looks to have the same motivations and be compatible with
> > > https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/253 (if I am reading it
> correctly).
> > > The only guidance I have on proposing a bip is what is on the readme
> > > https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/README.mediawiki
> > > 48 would be fitting if it is unused.
> > > This is still very much a work in progress and there does seem to be
> > > community support.
> > > Pavol and others have shared relevant info/suggestions which I will b=
e
> > > using to update the proposal.
> > > Will share again here when the next draft is ready.
> > > Many thanks,
> > > Fontaine
> > > Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> > > =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Origi=
nal Message =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90
> > > On Thursday, December 17, 2020 1:16 AM, Luke Dashjr luke@dashjr.org
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > BIP number 48 has not been assigned. Do not self-assign BIP numbers=
.
> > > > Is this intended to be compatible with
> > > > https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/253 ?
> > > > Luke
> > > > On Wednesday 16 December 2020 14:10:28 dentondevelopment via
> bitcoin-dev
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Here is the repo instead of a static link:
> > > > > https://github.com/Fonta1n3/bips/blob/master/bip-0048.mediawiki
> > > > > Fontaine
> > > > > Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> > > > > =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 O=
riginal Message =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=
=80=90
> > > > > On Wednesday, December 16, 2020 8:43 PM, dentondevelopment via
> > > > > bitcoin-dev
> > > >
> > > > bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > I would like to propose bip48 (taking bip44 as inspiration),
> with the
> > > > > > purpose of documenting modern multi-sig derivations.
> > > > > > Please see a rough draft of the proposed bip attached,
> comments/input
> > > > > > welcome.
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Fontaine
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
>

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">+1<br><div><br></div><div>It would be greatly beneficial t=
o have a referenceable=C2=A0standard for the convention that everyone (afai=
k) is following anyway. I think the current scope is now correct and agree =
with=C2=A0Fontaine&#39;s comments on the feedback.</div><div><br></div><div=
>Craig</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"=
gmail_attr">On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 10:17 PM dentondevelopment via bitcoin-=
dev &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-de=
v@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,=
204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hello all,<br>
<br>
Just wanted to give an update on progress for the &quot;bip48&quot; proposa=
l.<br>
<br>
There was some discussion on Twitter between a few multi-sig wallet devs: <=
a href=3D"https://twitter.com/fullynoded/status/1339374947228008448?s=3D21"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://twitter.com/fullynoded/status=
/1339374947228008448?s=3D21</a><br>
<br>
A few key points were brought up:<br>
<br>
1. We should not define a `script_type` as a path level<br>
<br>
The explicit purpose of this BIP is to define an already existing standard =
that is used in practice across multi-sig wallets. In order to do that we m=
ust define a script_type in the path otherwise &quot;loss of funds&quot; co=
uld occur and backwards compatibility broken.<br>
<br>
2. Another point brought up was that no-one uses the legacy derivation path=
 m/48&#39;/0&#39;/0&#39;/1&#39;, in practice all &quot;legacy&quot; p2sh mu=
lti-sig wallets use bip45.<br>
<br>
I agree and have removed all references to legacy p2sh derivations in the p=
roposed bip.<br>
<br>
3. We could possibly include a defined &quot;wild card&quot; in the script_=
type level to define any future address types (e.g. taproot)<br>
<br>
I agree this could be useful and think Ben Kaufman&#39;s suggestion of usin=
g m/48&#39;/0&#39;/0&#39;/1&#39; for this purpose makes sense, however I al=
so think a future multi-sig standard for new address types may well be suit=
ed for a different BIP which could also address concern #1 around including=
 `script_type` at all.<br>
<br>
Therefore I have not yet added any mention of &quot;wild card&quot; in the =
proposed bip but kept strictly to p2sh-p2wsh and p2wsh derivations as used =
in modern day wallets.<br>
<br>
I have create a PR <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1072" re=
l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/107=
2</a> so that anyone may easily comment on it and any concerns can be raise=
d.<br>
<br>
I think the community needs this and it is well over due.=C2=A0 I have gott=
en positive feedback and support from other devs.<br>
<br>
Feedback welcome.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Fontaine<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.<br>
<br>
=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me=
ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90<br>
On Friday, December 18, 2020 12:08 PM, Luke Dashjr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lu=
ke@dashjr.org" target=3D"_blank">luke@dashjr.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; Thanks for explaining where instructions are lacking.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; How does this look?<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1046/files" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1046/files<=
/a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Friday 18 December 2020 01:44:27 dentondevelopment wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Hi Luke,<br>
&gt; &gt; It looks to have the same motivations and be compatible with<br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/253" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/253</a> (if I=
 am reading it correctly).<br>
&gt; &gt; The only guidance I have on proposing a bip is what is on the rea=
dme<br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/README.med=
iawiki" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/bitcoin/bip=
s/blob/master/README.mediawiki</a><br>
&gt; &gt; 48 would be fitting if it is unused.<br>
&gt; &gt; This is still very much a work in progress and there does seem to=
 be<br>
&gt; &gt; community support.<br>
&gt; &gt; Pavol and others have shared relevant info/suggestions which I wi=
ll be<br>
&gt; &gt; using to update the proposal.<br>
&gt; &gt; Will share again here when the next draft is ready.<br>
&gt; &gt; Many thanks,<br>
&gt; &gt; Fontaine<br>
&gt; &gt; Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.<br>
&gt; &gt; =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 O=
riginal Message =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=
=80=90<br>
&gt; &gt; On Thursday, December 17, 2020 1:16 AM, Luke Dashjr <a href=3D"ma=
ilto:luke@dashjr.org" target=3D"_blank">luke@dashjr.org</a> wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; BIP number 48 has not been assigned. Do not self-assign BIP =
numbers.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Is this intended to be compatible with<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/253" rel=3D"=
noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/253</a> =
?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Luke<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; On Wednesday 16 December 2020 14:10:28 dentondevelopment via=
 bitcoin-dev<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Here is the repo instead of a static link:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://github.com/Fonta1n3/bips/blob/master=
/bip-0048.mediawiki" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.co=
m/Fonta1n3/bips/blob/master/bip-0048.mediawiki</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Fontaine<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=
=E2=80=90 Original Message =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=
=80=90=E2=80=90<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; On Wednesday, December 16, 2020 8:43 PM, dentondevelopm=
ent via<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; bitcoin-dev<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a> wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Hello,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I would like to propose bip48 (taking bip44 as ins=
piration), with the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; purpose of documenting modern multi-sig derivation=
s.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Please see a rough draft of the proposed bip attac=
hed, comments/input<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; welcome.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Regards,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Fontaine<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" target=3D"_blank">=
bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mail=
man/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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