1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
|
Return-Path: <john.tromp@gmail.com>
Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org
[172.17.192.35])
by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0EA38C8B
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 19 Sep 2019 11:16:49 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6
Received: from mail-ot1-f46.google.com (mail-ot1-f46.google.com
[209.85.210.46])
by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7354683A
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 19 Sep 2019 11:16:48 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by mail-ot1-f46.google.com with SMTP id z6so2729890otb.2
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 19 Sep 2019 04:16:48 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to;
bh=aGcZJrbQulw4m86rSSfbytHEx8kukX8/JuOHTNTuKr4=;
b=JOm3GQ2dSGkvWuZpjIW0HhGZD4HeDkt5jVLy29ETtP3wMHzgouU9YaTBUNfS7N/d8P
ON81AU8FXb9DruHkBSyY8KGbNen6pL1ztmTzKvLfzcYESzwVQ6nzAOnh0vOSrDUh1qOt
12uCS2k3FRHZ3wz/S8llxaCM6itj1LWZuOdzx/kpSbxe8l1aaKc/HaYMuh4TSkj2Ps8L
cLd1QamV5haClhi1ZrBWRIGlgsjIDumQFitMYOat71uY0OoIqIpALysMK2ebcYhCWcNH
7lvhAy37fWF/zSAiLFC4iwcK+U9VaSaSs5yTUpPRBXRQbyPiHw7mX3vmMmJEt93LCKpF
WVNQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20161025;
h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date
:message-id:subject:to;
bh=aGcZJrbQulw4m86rSSfbytHEx8kukX8/JuOHTNTuKr4=;
b=DavgJuQ6/z5HSNec+IRI9C+EYHnJoSXS1SnshPpIJ53tyCpAfYF1ekWhwF4v0yLOaw
ZgKUkwZwl74RxnLPdYchXfyJtlEdxkfM60woakVqid3Xy9dSaaj/GSd89JoVK+S8X3qO
ti4tgxbZhrCxMcxg1VZ5pXg5LguH8Sjdkc0JIdqCCGv7+AGZ2IIRgWM1pwl7jx7fuaA4
nqV6lb6brPj21aWL9IrrDfy5L9Mq9lwdem3uKyjuefFPsJEXSYv56l0u27bHNcK5Unit
DLeZID4JyFdJWT2udyu4IpYNimGLVkGnIJmX3c+b9mt2QFM7wxkTNvomwEP8js1UgL2Z
R9Cw==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUbeKM2qsN5W5rsoVtoVqTB80Yo+THY3d05CXR4Pq4byZ8D4mt3
X10n8Ph64tC1CStk9D8WFVYZF+KLVwCy7bDStK9214iGqQ==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyaZ044CLapbtxv5u69eBEv+8Q8D+FCqLW+AN3ZC0fYNKOrk/Bfv/MzhklQ+6L/4Tywt0QMYl+VD41R208wMo0=
X-Received: by 2002:a9d:30c2:: with SMTP id r2mr6497569otg.186.1568891807488;
Thu, 19 Sep 2019 04:16:47 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <mailman.1791.1568888841.8631.bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1791.1568888841.8631.bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
From: John Tromp <john.tromp@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 13:16:36 +0200
Message-ID: <CAOU__fw11EmAJzay7-H7X3my5+xNGGo_BS6_1hphauPXTgbw8Q@mail.gmail.com>
To: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM,
RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
smtp1.linux-foundation.org
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 11:22:15 +0000
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Timelocks and Lightning on MimbleWimble
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 11:16:49 -0000
> However, I believe that Lightning and similar offchain protocols are **not possible** on MimbleWimble, at least if we want to retain its "magical shrinking blockchain" property.
MimbleWimble can easily incorporate relative lock heights, in addition
to absolute lock heights. Grin and Beam have included the latter since
launch.
Grin's proposal for relative lock heights is at [1] with discussion at [2].
Based on these, Grin also has a rough design for payment channels at [3].
Beam included relative lock heights in its recent HardFork [4] and has
a payment channel design at [5].
regards,
-John
[1] https://github.com/antiochp/grin-rfcs/blob/relative_lock_heights/text/0000-relative-kernels.md
[2] https://github.com/mimblewimble/grin-rfcs/pull/19
[3] https://gist.github.com/antiochp/e54fece52dc408d738bf434a14680988
[4] https://github.com/BeamMW/beam/releases/tag/beam-3.0.5654
[5] https://docs.beam.mw/laser_beam.pdf
|
