1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
|
Return-Path: <user@petertodd.org>
Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [140.211.166.133])
by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4739CC002D
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 7 Jul 2022 14:12:55 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5269404B0
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 7 Jul 2022 14:12:54 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org D5269404B0
Authentication-Results: smtp2.osuosl.org;
dkim=pass (2048-bit key, unprotected) header.d=petertodd.org
header.i=@petertodd.org header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=fm1 header.b=Car+fvEy;
dkim=pass (2048-bit key,
unprotected) header.d=messagingengine.com header.i=@messagingengine.com
header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=fm3 header.b=xLKkeapk
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.901
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5
tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7,
RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001,
SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001]
autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id Vaf-N2aKGoYH
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 7 Jul 2022 14:12:51 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: domain auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org A3D144045C
Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com
[66.111.4.26])
by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3D144045C
for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
Thu, 7 Jul 2022 14:12:50 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45])
by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9190F5C005C;
Thu, 7 Jul 2022 10:12:47 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162])
by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 07 Jul 2022 10:12:47 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=petertodd.org;
h=cc:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to
:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject
:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t=1657203167; x=1657289567; bh=IzmbNCAXKM
OqtlGufxDNPxMlpDw3yZ9SbsvXmPm6/+4=; b=Car+fvEyS4EZqN8bXW5J5Pqvc7
q+zzB5izfUuvPs3cCYT+2/soqXuNhbX9n5S7255qCo1Uif1YCfmyBdz24irn0usw
0Bmy/92BRc18bGAhUnUvDNLOTFE9trsu1nWXHmMrDhhlbuWeIqFc0GuRYK4+Z6Z6
b1COZnI/azlIbPFe2vk3DQ9tOadp85zPFP/INgLfbkPXjaySR0L98XDfgULiVeFA
L5Y4cEwzcUbrWjzG+JHvvPZkoIEt0cREYVkVM0L5Dh6IWxwnavpuz8n5MWOz+TFn
wkrRGzboqdeBzOoggFGutnfNvsljLP8OyF5IXtEkKY+dEEu0jEh3VQ7wy1BA==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=
messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:date:feedback-id
:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id
:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to
:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=
fm3; t=1657203167; x=1657289567; bh=IzmbNCAXKMOqtlGufxDNPxMlpDw3
yZ9SbsvXmPm6/+4=; b=xLKkeapkZv/g1IhV9ysWWrrVhSmTdO3m8EXI0AOjZ+59
iJ+WOSQrGa3OaLq2CUyo8e+in40OzTwDnIz2LGmFvN77Q3goJpAaTWIezY07mQTK
sWHnszhu9gMpySroqZMRvjyYoIpw/jEmVmCoMk6U/KitL70WGwL2/5oAiUTT6bsP
5evJ9OCU07W8nbWv73GEwjsnM/VKMYIiMvCy2ldYNkI1eigEt4+wnxxHOjm7ViMg
j17jwsuB2FM/5hykGWQ+XFGpQTUYOuDQGeWNHF7QDM1L0HNag3kKrNDYelj64jni
kBD7KnrKGrs3DixgykWGPu7sX46M/gmPbdxQbm99yw==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:3-nGYlW1phlQ_rkZipPAtMKTjZuj0oV525bW4wy1KvVN4OOfOxfCZg>
<xme:3-nGYlmvN9uMoxpeiBVYWkPvfHo55NteXHNmF8k1sMJ_VQV-TrPOAbLgi72_voTfn
8zeGmj6nznyoz6Kkvg>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:3-nGYhb3qykF51un2M95fZSAaHbL1ONSGuYeGZGcphkrXcG9Hiax7RjCfnAkJ3C4p3Mw7AaM7qDqYaDBZj-tClrrdQ2tWHQmUik>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvfedrudeihedgjeefucetufdoteggodetrfdotf
fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen
uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne
cujfgurhepfffhvffukfhfgggtuggjsehgtderredttddvnecuhfhrohhmpefrvghtvghr
ucfvohguugcuoehpvghtvgesphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrgheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvg
hrnhepiedvvdelieekjeeukefgtdelfeegheehleffueehteeghfelveejfeelgeevffef
necuffhomhgrihhnpehpvghtvghrthhouggurdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivg
eptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepuhhsvghrsehpvghtvghrthhouggurdho
rhhg
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:3-nGYoVkYV_aV__uwffzNg_Uj0adygZWAanlC2TrgHH9eo9hxjCaaQ>
<xmx:3-nGYvkOp1ngT7BXc1NgBsXRtFRErlJtaw3pOVStn7jUH0-ZVf0dDA>
<xmx:3-nGYleyB4BYoClKoj90eHUGXHV1PAlSvDZw5FTNk8Lpt36QBpF09w>
<xmx:3-nGYuugHLakxzpmskmwYZvgWG-Ud_P_l73J5sPuOT0Ea4TNIqUBhg>
Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Thu,
7 Jul 2022 10:12:47 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000)
id 8DD845F87C; Thu, 7 Jul 2022 10:12:41 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 10:12:41 -0400
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: John Carvalho <john@synonym.to>,
Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Message-ID: <Ysbp2QclWW7NzfrS@petertodd.org>
References: <mailman.9.1657195203.20624.bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
<CAHTn92wR+D=2FLAc7vhhm4kNT6NwDfyKdRj32=E9H3UJ4QcE+Q@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512;
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="aSuM8JSyjjK7hGNT"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CAHTn92wR+D=2FLAc7vhhm4kNT6NwDfyKdRj32=E9H3UJ4QcE+Q@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Bitcoin covenants are inevitable
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>,
<mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2022 14:12:55 -0000
--aSuM8JSyjjK7hGNT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 02:24:39PM +0100, John Carvalho via bitcoin-dev wro=
te:
> Billy,
>=20
> Proof of work and the difficulty adjustment function solve literally
> everything you are talking about already.
Unfortunately you are quite wrong: the difficulty adjustment function merely
adjusts for changes in the amount of observable, non-51%-attacking, hashing
power. In the event of a chain split, the difficulty adjustment function do=
es
nothing; against a 51% attacker, the difficulty adjustment does nothing;
against a censor, the difficulty adjustment does nothing.
We should not imbue real technology with magical qualities.
> Bitcoin does not need active economic governanance by devs or meddlers.
Yes, active governance would definitely be an exploitable mechanism. On the
other hand, the status quo of the block reward eventually going away entire=
ly
is obviously a risky state change too.
> > > There is also zero agreement on how much security would constitute su=
ch
> > an optimum.
> >
> > This is really step 1. We need to generate consensus on this long before
> > the block subsidy becomes too small. Probably in the next 10-15 years. I
> > wrote a paper
The fact of the matter is that the present amount of security is about 1.7%=
of
the total coin supply/year, and Bitcoin seems to be working fine. 1.7% is a=
lso
already an amount low enough that it's much smaller than economic volatilit=
y.
Obviously 0% is too small.
There's zero reason to stress about finding an "optimal" amount. An amount =
low
enough to be easily affordable, but non-zero, is fine. 1% would be fine; 0.=
5%
would probably be fine; 0.1% would probably be fine.
Over a lifetime - 75 years - 0.5% yearly inflation works out to be a 31% ta=
x on
savings; 0.1% works out to be 7.2%
These are all amounts that are likely to be dwarfed by economic shifts.
--=20
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
--aSuM8JSyjjK7hGNT
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----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=I1Dy
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--aSuM8JSyjjK7hGNT--
|
