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From: Michel 'ic' Luczak <lists@benappy.com>
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To: Jameson Lopp <jameson.lopp@gmail.com>,
Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Total fees have almost crossed the block reward
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Hi,
This is the first time I post on this list.
First of all, Thank you Jameson for the interview you gave yesterday, =
it=E2=80=99s been a model of calm and self-control for all of us.
I deeply believe the high average fees we experience right now are =
mostly due to the miscalculations of most of the hardware (ledger & =
trezor) wallets (and probably software too) on the market.
I personally made transactions at the worst period for the Blockchain =
with less than 40 sat/WU of fees and got confirmed in less than a day.
I think there=E2=80=99s a lot of work to do in used education to make =
them understand that for a low amount of fees they can still get a =
transaction confirmed and that=E2=80=99s the POS=E2=80=99 work to make =
sure the transaction is legit.
Regards, Michel.
> On 21 Dec 2017, at 23:02, Jameson Lopp via bitcoin-dev =
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org> wrote:
>=20
> I'd hope that the incentives are in place to encourage high volume =
senders to be more efficient in their use of block space by batching =
transactions and implementing SegWit, though this may not be the case =
for providers that pass transaction fees along to their users.
>=20
> We've been trying to be more proactive about outreach regarding =
efficient use of block space to our own customers at BitGo - when we =
break down the cost savings of implementing a new technique, it =
generally helps to hasten their adoption. I suspect that in many cases =
this is an issue of education - we should be more proactive in calling =
out inefficient uses of block space.
>=20
> Good resources to bookmark and share:
>=20
> =
https://bitcointechtalk.com/saving-up-to-80-on-bitcoin-transaction-fees-by=
-batching-payments-4147ab7009fb =
<https://bitcointechtalk.com/saving-up-to-80-on-bitcoin-transaction-fees-b=
y-batching-payments-4147ab7009fb>
>=20
> =
https://blog.zebpay.com/how-zebpay-reduced-bitcoin-transaction-fees-a9e24c=
788598 =
<https://blog.zebpay.com/how-zebpay-reduced-bitcoin-transaction-fees-a9e24=
c788598>
>=20
> - Jameson
>=20
> On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Melvin Carvalho via bitcoin-dev =
<bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>> wrote:
> I asked adam back at hcpp how the block chain would be secured in the =
long term, once the reward goes away. The base idea has always been =
that fees would replace the block reward.
>=20
> At that time fees were approximately 10% of the block reward, but have =
now reached 45%, with 50% potentially being crossed soon
>=20
> https://fork.lol/reward/feepct <https://fork.lol/reward/feepct>
>=20
> While this bodes well for the long term security of the coin, I think =
there is some legitimate concern that the fee per tx is prohibitive for =
some use cases, at this point in the adoption curve.
>=20
> Observations of segwit adoption show around 10% at this point
>=20
> http://segwit.party/charts/ <http://segwit.party/charts/>
>=20
> Watching the mempool shows that the congestion is at a peak, though =
it's quite possible this will come down over the long weekend. I wonder =
if this is of concern to some.
>=20
> https://dedi.jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/more/#24h =
<https://dedi.jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/more/#24h>
>=20
> I thought these data points may be of interest and are mainly FYI. =
Though if further discussion is deemed appropriate, it would be =
interesting to hear thoughts.
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org =
<mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev =
<https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
--Apple-Mail=_E9908C28-CB2C-4F6F-9D36-5811AC44B344
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D"">Hi,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">This =
is the first time I post on this list.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">First of all, Thank you Jameson for the =
interview you gave yesterday, it=E2=80=99s been a model of calm and =
self-control for all of us.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div=
class=3D"">I deeply believe the high average fees we experience right =
now are mostly due to the miscalculations of most of the hardware =
(ledger & trezor) wallets (and probably software too) on the =
market.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I =
personally made transactions at the worst period for the Blockchain with =
less than 40 sat/WU of fees and got confirmed in less than a =
day.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I think =
there=E2=80=99s a lot of work to do in used education to make them =
understand that for a low amount of fees they can still get a =
transaction confirmed and that=E2=80=99s the POS=E2=80=99 work to make =
sure the transaction is legit.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Regards, Michel.<br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On 21 =
Dec 2017, at 23:02, Jameson Lopp via bitcoin-dev <<a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" =
class=3D"">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">I'd hope that the incentives are in place to encourage high =
volume senders to be more efficient in their use of block space by =
batching transactions and implementing SegWit, though this may not be =
the case for providers that pass transaction fees along to their =
users.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">We've been =
trying to be more proactive about outreach regarding efficient use of =
block space to our own customers at BitGo - when we break down the cost =
savings of implementing a new technique, it generally helps to hasten =
their adoption. I suspect that in many cases this is an issue of =
education - we should be more proactive in calling out inefficient uses =
of block space.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Good resources to bookmark and share:</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://bitcointechtalk.com/saving-up-to-80-on-bitcoin-transaction=
-fees-by-batching-payments-4147ab7009fb" =
class=3D"">https://bitcointechtalk.com/saving-up-to-80-on-bitcoin-transact=
ion-fees-by-batching-payments-4147ab7009fb</a><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://blog.zebpay.com/how-zebpay-reduced-bitcoin-transaction-fee=
s-a9e24c788598" =
class=3D"">https://blog.zebpay.com/how-zebpay-reduced-bitcoin-transaction-=
fees-a9e24c788598</a><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">- Jameson</div></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, =
Dec 21, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Melvin Carvalho via bitcoin-dev <span dir=3D"ltr"=
class=3D""><<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" =
target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>></span> =
wrote:<br class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">I asked adam back at hcpp how the block chain =
would be secured in the long term, once the reward goes away. The =
base idea has always been that fees would replace the block reward.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>At that time fees were approximately 10% =
of the block reward, but have now reached 45%, with 50% potentially =
being crossed soon<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://fork.lol/reward/feepct" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://fork.lol/reward/feepct</a><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div>While this bodes well for the long term security of the =
coin, I think there is some legitimate concern that the fee per tx is =
prohibitive for some use cases, at this point in the adoption curve.<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Observations of segwit adoption show =
around 10% at this point<br class=3D""><br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"http://segwit.party/charts/" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://segwit.party/charts/</a><br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div>Watching the mempool shows that the congestion is at a =
peak, though it's quite possible this will come down over the long =
weekend. I wonder if this is of concern to some.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><a href=3D"https://dedi.jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/more/#24h" =
target=3D"_blank" class=3D"">https://dedi.jochen-hoenicke.<wbr =
class=3D"">de/queue/more/#24h</a><br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>I =
thought these data points may be of interest and are mainly FYI. =
Though if further discussion is deemed appropriate, it would be =
interesting to hear thoughts.<br class=3D""></div>
<br class=3D"">______________________________<wbr =
class=3D"">_________________<br class=3D"">
bitcoin-dev mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" =
class=3D"">bitcoin-dev@lists.<wbr class=3D"">linuxfoundation.org</a><br =
class=3D"">
<a href=3D"https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev"=
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">https://lists.linuxfoundation.<wbr =
class=3D"">org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-<wbr class=3D"">dev</a><br =
class=3D"">
<br class=3D""></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">bitcoin-dev =
mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org" =
class=3D"">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev<=
br class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=
--Apple-Mail=_E9908C28-CB2C-4F6F-9D36-5811AC44B344--
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