1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
|
Delivery-date: Thu, 20 Jun 2024 15:52:52 -0700
Received: from mail-yb1-f188.google.com ([209.85.219.188])
by mail.fairlystable.org with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
(Exim 4.94.2)
(envelope-from <bitcoindev+bncBDRYHVHZTUGRBPHF2KZQMGQE56V7NVY@googlegroups.com>)
id 1sKQeC-0004tO-8B
for bitcoindev@gnusha.org; Thu, 20 Jun 2024 15:52:52 -0700
Received: by mail-yb1-f188.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-dfa73db88dcsf2492290276.0
for <bitcoindev@gnusha.org>; Thu, 20 Jun 2024 15:52:51 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; t=1718923966; cv=pass;
d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
b=o+vyPDF1GjTLvXdSoiec/SPdNYjsEMjPcEjMPBiY2qgCs6vVZU7Mul2THuaZTlF+o+
CsCagJpszBF3uV1SO15/f3Co4F+lPV6ZYfBzJjuN1evyneqB0uiC41SP3BGTf8a5uYf/
wIAUy4PQCkY2r+jPpAOSbBSPVS9EEhB3ZioXtfsTFY4cVLVRucTjHwUfdjpzRz3En0sZ
zU1dKE3m6o5sSCKFpwEF+7O58RsN4YfdMrM8mgCUFoCZGuHlVYyRWuxbcy5leAe4QaZA
U/HSxrA+SqS8x7s3eIKfn2Pbn3OPMldHsCarYc84RQaSWzzENnhAeOETSokn65eWNbKY
qOtg==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:in-reply-to:content-disposition
:mime-version:references:message-id:subject:to:from:date:feedback-id
:sender:dkim-signature;
bh=mJ25SER4JqGuOFZk4LdN8X+SI0+3Y0marAPyDRIRQf4=;
fh=MttgBSPE/J2zP6QIQ63oQxMmYYP2/ljCITtVE2cauq4=;
b=GQiHv2C3gC5aX2/f17k8tMfOSH1jNSCUl19xkWM5ezoW10PLuxdvHymiHebDRG0yqq
iR/CFhlTorLS5yehmeyMGVDHuhCNVVCQuPF3BAJLa73rJHxEmd1MfGvq8dj4TIyMM285
Vo6Wm0VUSESNO2P/nben8jUEipsH7knr6PTPQ8Z8MlRkKexC7KWBeinZLiTOS/+/2sL7
GgV6+nSayOLtwAALUFaYuii1AH9N2iN45ceLMWGkue/kZOx9ixOGRPpywB/kCUFMnvHq
f3qXKLeyTnrIY4Rad6RmIeaJLBkG46AonD86hLxLZF3bvKvMm92rcOVgz/sErM+3eaRT
7CPw==;
darn=gnusha.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=gRl7NA4N;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.148 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=googlegroups.com; s=20230601; t=1718923966; x=1719528766; darn=gnusha.org;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version
:references:message-id:subject:to:from:date:feedback-id:sender:from
:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=mJ25SER4JqGuOFZk4LdN8X+SI0+3Y0marAPyDRIRQf4=;
b=jl/1bYpDCuXRUJQMpJr70IsFjLHIET8YC/1q0SDc3+dIdbB3iYxFxLX8s71CbrQ5Gw
j5d7uc8e3mlx3RYPiafASy5KSvq7Y5qY+wYnlhWGv0MfA1ZKb2MjcnbhaxPEW8pIpbnM
jRQaVzdjs/xbstawGLKSW++RKdP/VLXnurBkFaETlAiIWxm2ZXz7Oquc0ruKpXe5Sn6z
8MYgNct04ZaEQC0PDlY6iL9u0Spqpy6mbDiwMHMHwj8ledOM1TcU4+rJJK39KFNJNuvl
/YnmTqRq7+zMnt2TP6udzXzDAYIcR4ZB2WFgyLqFV5AxlwV/mhCrxdmbis8DOxY6Ahls
eFHQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1718923966; x=1719528766;
h=list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post
:list-id:mailing-list:precedence:x-original-authentication-results
:x-original-sender:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version
:references:message-id:subject:to:from:date:feedback-id:x-beenthere
:x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id
:reply-to;
bh=mJ25SER4JqGuOFZk4LdN8X+SI0+3Y0marAPyDRIRQf4=;
b=Z3/oz+l+fn/wPsWJ+mREY79lhuwll0DsiD5Q3fJsbP5HaBRelw+x2TroXZnjKvfmOS
ts+knScdFbcjSYrFYXPiAVKlbpkXcZ04r3eEw9N0+3xDb3muf4wWS4oGCcXkCWZryHIC
b3yV1AyvbVBPL2ETblMwrftzl3eQ+Mlvd+aJzwxNWst6ZowsEwtYrPHIizC7dqVc3ef0
tlOYj0zMl3IpqiXIt6ZRkenbgRX4+9L/jRPYEO3hhQ7IJsl+41ekFLL55srtZntSJ89g
LFs2m+XKafdJQtGn1YA7gn1Dj7zHcK4pkuhJMN5Gc7ow36/wm/H8VTWE1vJIjQFhZqtF
nXZA==
Sender: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=2; AJvYcCX+VZDCoeFOMap/N0mPHInWcbxKpdQdtk1iuut5QfjnwPUzPAwvZpByI5TubTl0glBhbk7DMzSe3MGRzuNUGIfZ8ohG0/E=
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyXQfbhlU49o+uHpGU4uvEmLGQAifEuySCWE8aftDjKzxCkGAsY
qRB2gEWuzu7KQT8z4CB6POeOxNaykszAizxs7iVNvdtxOfw3nyQB
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGg/7dIRkid2Fg9pDNzYMf0SUsXOQwP7DTwKYzrnRlnwe/B56O0gWAPyjZL+2kruKa+gCO/PQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a25:83c8:0:b0:dff:883:cac3 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e02be137fbbmr7033529276.14.1718923965598;
Thu, 20 Jun 2024 15:52:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
Received: by 2002:a05:6902:1895:b0:dfa:77ba:dc1f with SMTP id
3f1490d57ef6-e02d0dffc95ls2220668276.2.-pod-prod-06-us; Thu, 20 Jun 2024
15:52:43 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:1109:b0:e02:c619:73d with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e02c6190b4bmr1099075276.5.1718923963834;
Thu, 20 Jun 2024 15:52:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 2002:a0d:cd04:0:b0:620:26bb:319f with SMTP id 00721157ae682-63a99666fc8ms7b3;
Thu, 20 Jun 2024 15:33:50 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a25:26c7:0:b0:dff:2b94:175f with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e02be16e572mr6955646276.28.1718922829284;
Thu, 20 Jun 2024 15:33:49 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1718922829; cv=none;
d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
b=yZcSNyzFapfOsClkBupPA1JJTIUI5+y+T1oZ8MJUype2VpW81W/XN4+oK+kM6s3Tyd
GxdaqiqkypNTuN+Cw1BM0pXiCD5OkqTiaGeD2+jajlFgnsMP7gDQzHsrHi6o6nVv+OC9
gEhyQDKxsPbb2Dq768rFVK2VPYZsibxEeiLCvLorg50nd64caVAO6EdGSzivdllwJskQ
T0FI/IrKjTeR7n0uX5wpblbLV90Rnvhq15t1nlzDs3dAYT0EFbqWS5tFXs1WC4RAmri4
S6MNXe6krs9mUBImPId/piNeD8zhYmDyjWTf7VZJPN66XJ6GGEVu9xJh+a9PNr/Y3zGK
6uag==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id
:subject:to:from:date:feedback-id:dkim-signature;
bh=rML52Qh9Qv8FdLqkB4/Wfb3dkD0PiwcvLYSVM6cdsMk=;
fh=VcGcg+Zjs9gw1uDcHbxsAILhBAcecnbJzZRdxgKVDIc=;
b=mUjRONgiyOEdPqkmnDbtpeMiPtnXO6D/Zpldwh6f/iEtzbRgv+lG4lIN4ODkmTZAYA
47d7bpvH2lGb0XqCZE/tHiVXBcAVS8W9iyLYGUPtrm3WB31gYP0M21iDkeDOKKmC+jzl
/tqwnaoeLxezfGw8coXiMl0K6Qlf4VBlU24vBHI7BpFcHFqPVSOBrZC+U83Fw+dUkF/K
1Yp3A02fOMsuN0qKcLnsD5yP0Ck8+BXhBY4J7oWiz/T/7vSlZGLeYwj23tIub8x6DocW
CeBMozrrzhdydPn9R88B1TvCVcIOZxOUOPSqqLgpPR3PgoPkOxfoLuNvQM+Lz5aMueVU
Igsg==;
dara=google.com
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; gmr-mx.google.com;
dkim=pass header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=gRl7NA4N;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.148 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org
Received: from fout5-smtp.messagingengine.com (fout5-smtp.messagingengine.com. [103.168.172.148])
by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 3f1490d57ef6-e02e65b7de8si13550276.2.2024.06.20.15.33.49
for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
(version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
Thu, 20 Jun 2024 15:33:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.148 as permitted sender) client-ip=103.168.172.148;
Received: from compute5.internal (compute5.nyi.internal [10.202.2.45])
by mailfout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id A749F1380171
for <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>; Thu, 20 Jun 2024 18:33:48 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162])
by compute5.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 20 Jun 2024 18:33:48 -0400
X-ME-Sender: <xms:TK50Zv1V6tCaKNmgE5nGnxBUPBUqNwANlvtCZK0LwI8Gu1PdrDrVFw>
<xme:TK50ZuEGOnANQczeTcYOk0IRrnlZ94DatmdnlEUg1vi8huGpXk-PHCRdHczhvZIAI
VNLeBEPzjBLMYlcy_I>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:TK50Zv5rr1dO-6h2eB5J0qzqRJkJ62ZSZynKAhdqQH8Yjw8Jd-e35ScXUeFCrt_2-pE2CNXh2WHH74M53gsawMgazpIo>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvledrfeeffedguddvucetufdoteggodetrfdotf
fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen
uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpeffhffvuffkfhggtggujgesghdtre
ertddtvdenucfhrhhomheprfgvthgvrhcuvfhougguuceophgvthgvsehpvghtvghrthho
uggurdhorhhgqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeeivddvleeikeejueekgfdtleefgeehhe
elffeuheetgefhleevjeefleegvefffeenucffohhmrghinhepphgvthgvrhhtohguugdr
ohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe
hpvghtvgesphgvthgvrhhtohguugdrohhrgh
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:TK50Zk2bwgfgzgASu0ngS02w7y-_pwDo2Eqm9WpNZMiUNF2N2KNDhg>
<xmx:TK50ZiESo1L47Y1gY6O5S5KU_KmRNfwUUw6jvep_NGegknlWO4bYQQ>
<xmx:TK50Zl_6CocIdz9xecYaiJOJegBAiAe3_6CV0Mm_Jy76hjkIrDytvQ>
<xmx:TK50ZvmFzwBLxgWsG7GYauf_40TijGDUVH3twUmeKl--ybK-rfqAXQ>
<xmx:TK50Zuh65FcFIIlNk7HTqc8pdqWVgeN8LjGfSFDnjLMn92J2Uo4KlFe->
Feedback-ID: i525146e8:Fastmail
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA for
<bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>; Thu, 20 Jun 2024 18:33:48 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by localhost (Postfix, from userid 1000)
id 153CA5F83C; Thu, 20 Jun 2024 22:33:46 +0000 (UTC)
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2024 22:33:46 +0000
From: Peter Todd <pete@petertodd.org>
To: bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [bitcoindev] Libre Relay v27.1 released with lower 1.25x
replacement threshold
Message-ID: <ZnSuSh1FBGSYlPFE@petertodd.org>
References: <ZnRZ6zhON4oT5Sg9@petertodd.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512;
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="TgepFErliItSEnjn"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <ZnRZ6zhON4oT5Sg9@petertodd.org>
X-Original-Sender: pete@petertodd.org
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; dkim=pass
header.i=@messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=gRl7NA4N; spf=pass
(google.com: domain of pete@petertodd.org designates 103.168.172.148 as
permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@petertodd.org
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bitcoindev@googlegroups.com; contact bitcoindev+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bitcoindev.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 786775582512
List-Post: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/post>, <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <https://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bitcoindev+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev
List-Subscribe: <https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>, <mailto:bitcoindev+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+786775582512+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
<https://groups.google.com/group/bitcoindev/subscribe>
X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/)
--TgepFErliItSEnjn
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 04:33:47PM +0000, Peter Todd wrote:
> Libre Relay/RBFR is already mitigating transaction pinning in the real wo=
rld.
> I've personally run into a few cases with LND nodes where anchor outputs =
were
> spent after the 16 block CSV timeout by third parties in a large transact=
ion
> that the LND node was not aware of, leading to LND creating a conflicting=
,
> higher-fee, transaction spending the anchor output and other outputs. Nor=
mally
> the conflict would fail to get mined due to the higher absolute fee pin. =
But in
> each case after propagation via Libre Relay nodes, F2Pool eventually mine=
d the
> higher fee-rate transaction after a few hours; I suspect F2Pool has an un=
usual
> short mempool expiration time. Lightning node operators should consider r=
unning
> Libre Relay for this purpose, as the existing Lightning protocol does hav=
e some
> pinning vulnerabilities.
Here's a real world example of this pinning situation being resolved by RBF=
R,
in a transaction created by someone's LN node. You can see the RBFR replace=
ment
happening on one of my Libre Relay nodes, with the total fees being decreas=
ed
in exchange for a higher fee-rate:
2024-06-20T18:50:33Z [mempool] replacing tx 2bbc326c641fe88101fd7401721c1e8=
a30ce78264e73e3fd67b7803e1fcffe93 (wtxid=3Df873e1e56be6b5ef21f30542a5823e1c=
e75634fcab8143a5e53bf1aae91852ed) with 26aa0ea3b84d31b7ff90e428430a0e9dad68=
ff24ccc87cece05bd7733c7b0e19 (wtxid=3D389a1f9cb2cfc0389bd7aad5037fc1d7fb2f0=
24921b110d8db6a3dba8fb6a134) for -0.00309094 additional fees, -58207 delta =
bytes
2024-06-20T18:50:33Z [mempool] AcceptToMemoryPool: peer=3D41398: accepted 2=
6aa0ea3b84d31b7ff90e428430a0e9dad68ff24ccc87cece05bd7733c7b0e19 (wtxid=3D38=
9a1f9cb2cfc0389bd7aad5037fc1d7fb2f024921b110d8db6a3dba8fb6a134) (poolsz 877=
26 txn, 289021 kB)
Transaction 26aa spent three anchor outputs in a 13.1sat/vB transaction tha=
t
was pinned by tx 2bbc at 5.37sat/vB, broadcast two days prior:
2024-06-18T13:18:50Z [mempool] AcceptToMemoryPool: peer=3D56868: accepted 2=
bbc326c641fe88101fd7401721c1e8a30ce78264e73e3fd67b7803e1fcffe93 (wtxid=3Df8=
73e1e56be6b5ef21f30542a5823e1ce75634fcab8143a5e53bf1aae91852ed) (poolsz 750=
64 txn, 285641 kB)
Fee-rates that low haven't been profitable to mine for months, so F2Pool
profited by mining 26aa instead, even though the total fee was reduced; I a=
lso
checked logs on some non-RBFR nodes, and they never even saw 26aa. I know f=
or a
fact that F2Pool is directly connected to some Libre Relay nodes, so the mo=
st
likely route 26aa got to them was via Libre Relay.
The fact this happened is a good example of how the "free-relay" argument
against RBFR is bogus: tens of thousands of non-RBFR nodes wasted bandwidth
propagating 2bbc, 95kB in size, with 1121 inputs. Yet even though just a do=
zen
or two RBFR nodes exist, the RBFR replacement was able to get to a miner,
eventually getting into a block and invalidating 2bbc while only needing to=
pay
the cost to spend a single input. The miner in question probably doesn't ev=
en
run RBFR: they just allowed the transaction to eventually expire. Which Bit=
coin
Core does by default anyway after 2 weeks.
--=20
https://petertodd.org 'peter'[:-1]@petertodd.org
--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/=
bitcoindev/ZnSuSh1FBGSYlPFE%40petertodd.org.
--TgepFErliItSEnjn
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----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=xCAe
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--TgepFErliItSEnjn--
|
