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Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 13:35:48 +0200
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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>,
Andreas Schildbach <andreas@schildbach.de>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Payment Protocol: BIP 70, 71, 72
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On 25 September 2013 13:15, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:
> It won't fit. But I don't see the logic. A URI contains instructions for
> making a payment. If that instruction is "pay to this address" or "download
> this file and do what you find there", it's no different unless there's
> potential for a MITM attack. If the request URL is HTTPS or a secured
> Bluetooth connection then there's no such possibility.
>
It depends on the attacker. I think a large entity such as a govt or big
to medium size corporation *may* be able to MITM https, of course the
incentive to do so is probably not there ...
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 12:28 PM, Andreas Schildbach <
> andreas@schildbach.de> wrote:
>
>> While it's good to save space, I'm at the moment not convinced that
>> taking a de-route via an URL is a good idea to begin with.
>>
>> The main problem is trust. If you scan a QR code from a foreign phone,
>> you trust that that phone is owned by the one you want to send money to.
>> By adding the HTTP request that trust is voided.
>>
>> As soon as there is a BIP70 implementation, I will begin playing with
>> putting the payment request directly into the QR code.
>>
>>
>> On 09/25/2013 11:27 AM, Mike Hearn wrote:
>> > We could also say that if protocol part (https://) is missing, it's
>> > implied automatically. So just:
>> >
>> > bitcoin:1abc........?r=bob.com/r/aZgR <http://bob.com/r/aZgR>
>> >
>> > I think that's about as small as possible without re-using the pubkey as
>> > a token in the url.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 1:35 AM, Gavin Andresen <
>> gavinandresen@gmail.com
>> > <mailto:gavinandresen@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net
>> > <mailto:mike@plan99.net>> wrote:
>> >
>> > BTW, on the "make qrcodes more scannable" front -- is it too
>> > late to change BIP 72 so the new param is just "r" instead of
>> > "request"? Every byte helps when it comes to qrcodes ...
>> >
>> >
>> > Not too late, assuming there are no objections. Smaller QR codes is
>> > a very good reason to change it.
>> >
>> > --
>> > --
>> > Gavin Andresen
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > October Webinars: Code for Performance
>> > Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
>> > Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the
>> most from
>> > the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and
>> register >
>> >
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60133471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> > Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> October Webinars: Code for Performance
>> Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
>> Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most
>> from
>> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register >
>>
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60133471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> October Webinars: Code for Performance
> Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
> Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most
> from
> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register >
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60133471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>
--001a11c238e8a11d7204e733a7c4
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On 25 September 2013 13:15, Mike Hearn <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net" target=3D"_blank">mike@plan99.net</a>></spa=
n> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">It won't fit. But I don=
't see the logic. A URI contains instructions for making a payment. If =
that instruction is "pay to this address" or "download this =
file and do what you find there", it's no different unless there&#=
39;s potential for a MITM attack. If the request URL is HTTPS or a secured =
Bluetooth connection then there's no such possibility.</div>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>It depends on the attacker.=A0 I think a l=
arge entity such as a govt or big to medium size corporation *may* be able =
to MITM https, of course the incentive to do so is probably not there ...<b=
r>
</div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>
<br></div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><div=
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 25, 2=
013 at 12:28 PM, Andreas Schildbach <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto=
:andreas@schildbach.de" target=3D"_blank">andreas@schildbach.de</a>></sp=
an> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">While it's good to save space, I'm a=
t the moment not convinced that<br>
taking a de-route via an URL is a good idea to begin with.<br>
<br>
The main problem is trust. If you scan a QR code from a foreign phone,<br>
you trust that that phone is owned by the one you want to send money to.<br=
>
By adding the HTTP request that trust is voided.<br>
<br>
As soon as there is a BIP70 implementation, I will begin playing with<br>
putting the payment request directly into the QR code.<br>
<div><br>
<br>
On 09/25/2013 11:27 AM, Mike Hearn wrote:<br>
> We could also say that if protocol part (https://) is missing, it'=
s<br>
> implied automatically. So just:<br>
><br>
</div>> bitcoin:1abc........?r=3D<a href=3D"http://bob.com/r/aZgR" targe=
t=3D"_blank">bob.com/r/aZgR</a> <<a href=3D"http://bob.com/r/aZgR" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://bob.com/r/aZgR</a>><br>
<div>><br>
> I think that's about as small as possible without re-using the pub=
key as<br>
> a token in the url.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 1:35 AM, Gavin Andresen <<a href=3D"mailto:=
gavinandresen@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gavinandresen@gmail.com</a><br>
</div><div>> <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:gavinandresen@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">gavinandresen@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> =A0 =A0 On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Mike Hearn <<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:mike@plan99.net" target=3D"_blank">mike@plan99.net</a><br>
</div><div>> =A0 =A0 <mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:mike@plan99.net" targe=
t=3D"_blank">mike@plan99.net</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 BTW, on the "make qrcodes more scannable" fr=
ont -- is it too<br>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 late to change BIP 72 so the new param is just "r=
" instead of<br>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "request"? Every byte helps when it comes to=
qrcodes ...<br>
><br>
><br>
> =A0 =A0 Not too late, assuming there are no objections. Smaller QR cod=
es is<br>
> =A0 =A0 a very good reason to change it.<br>
><br>
> =A0 =A0 --<br>
> =A0 =A0 --<br>
> =A0 =A0 Gavin Andresen<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
</div>> ----------------------------------------------------------------=
--------------<br>
> October Webinars: Code for Performance<br>
> Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.<b=
r>
> Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the mo=
st from<br>
> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and regist=
er ><br>
> <a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D60133471&am=
p;iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net=
/gampad/clk?id=3D60133471&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br>
<div>><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D=
"_blank">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
> <a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-develo=
pment" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitco=
in-development</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>---------------------------------------------------------------------=
---------<br>
October Webinars: Code for Performance<br>
Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.<br>
Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most fr=
om<br>
the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register &g=
t;<br>
<a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D60133471&iu=
=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam=
pad/clk?id=3D60133471&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br>
<div><div>_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div><br>-----------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------<br>
October Webinars: Code for Performance<br>
Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.<br>
Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most fr=
om<br>
the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register &g=
t;<br>
<a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D60133471&iu=
=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam=
pad/clk?id=3D60133471&iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br>___________________=
____________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
--001a11c238e8a11d7204e733a7c4--
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