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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>,
Wendell <w@grabhive.com>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] moving the default display to mbtc
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--001a11c373ec29c71504f47f97a8
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On 13 March 2014 16:50, Mike Hearn <mike@plan99.net> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Jeff Garzik <jgarzik@bitpay.com> wrote:
>
>> Such hand-wavy, data-free logic is precisely why community
>> coordination is preferred to random apps making random decisions in
>> this manner.
>>
>
> That ship sailed months ago. If you wanted a big push for uBTC, then would
> have been the time. Though given that it'd have made lots of normal
> balances incredibly huge, perhaps it's a good thing that didn't happen.
> Also "milli" is a unit people encounter in daily life whereas micro isn't.
> Is it milli / micro / nano or milli / nano / micro? I bet a lot of people
> would get that wrong.
>
> If you have to export to financial packages that can't handle fractional
> pennies, then by all means represent prices in whatever units you like for
> that purpose, but in software designed for ordinary people in everyday life
> mBTC is a pretty good fit.
>
> Besides, fractional pennies crop up in existing currencies too (the famous
> Verizon Math episode showed this), so if a financial package insists on
> rounding to 2dp then I guess it may sometimes do the wrong thing in some
> business cases already.
>
> Fundamentally, more than two decimal places tends to violate the
>> Principle Of Least Astonishment with many humans, and as a result,
>> popular software systems have been written with that assumption.
>
>
> Lots of people use currencies that don't have any fractional components at
> all ! So perhaps all prices should be denominated in satoshis to ensure
> that they're not surprised :)
>
> The (number) line has to be drawn somewhere. Wallets are free to suppress
> more than 2dp of precision and actually Andreas' app lets you choose your
> preferred precision. So I think in the end it won't matter a whole lot, if
> the defaults end up being wrong people can change them until wallet authors
> catch up.
>
+1 agree with Mike on everything
A couple of points:
1. bitcoinity already switched to mbtc aka millitbits (
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/MilliBit ) and it was positively recieved, they
got quite a few donations
2. If you watch Gavin's talk at the CFR he suggests the community comes to
a consensus through implementations rather than top down decision making
(If I understood correctly)
I think it's up to wallet maintainers whether to switch the default.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book
> "Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases and their
> applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,
> this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech
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>
--001a11c373ec29c71504f47f97a8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On 13 March 2014 16:50, Mike Hearn <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D=
"mailto:mike@plan99.net" target=3D"_blank">mike@plan99.net</a>></span> w=
rote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"">On Thu, Mar 1=
3, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Jeff Garzik <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:jga=
rzik@bitpay.com" target=3D"_blank">jgarzik@bitpay.com</a>></span> wrote:=
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Such hand-wavy, data=
-free logic is precisely why community<br></div>
coordination is preferred to random apps making random decisions in<br>
this manner.<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>That ship sailed mon=
ths ago. If you wanted a big push for uBTC, then would have been the time. =
Though given that it'd have made lots of normal balances incredibly hug=
e, perhaps it's a good thing that didn't happen. Also "milli&q=
uot; is a unit people encounter in daily life whereas micro isn't. Is i=
t milli / micro / nano or milli / nano / micro? I bet a lot of people would=
get that wrong.</div>
<div><br></div><div>If you have to export to financial packages that can=
9;t handle fractional pennies, then by all means represent prices in whatev=
er units you like for that purpose, but in software designed for ordinary p=
eople in everyday life mBTC is a pretty good fit.</div>
<div>=A0</div><div>Besides, fractional pennies crop up in existing currenci=
es too (the famous Verizon Math episode showed this), so if a financial pac=
kage insists on rounding to 2dp then I guess it may sometimes do the wrong =
thing in some business cases already.</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Fundamenta=
lly, more than two decimal places tends to violate the<br>
Principle Of Least Astonishment with many humans, and as a result,<br>
popular software systems have been written with that assumption.</blockquot=
e><div><br></div></div><div>Lots of people use currencies that don't ha=
ve any fractional components at all ! So perhaps all prices should be denom=
inated in satoshis to ensure that they're not surprised :)</div>
<div><br></div><div>The (number) line has to be drawn somewhere. Wallets ar=
e free to suppress more than 2dp of precision and actually Andreas' app=
lets you choose your preferred precision. So I think in the end it won'=
;t matter a whole lot, if the defaults end up being wrong people can change=
them until wallet authors catch up.</div>
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>+1 agree with Mike on ev=
erything<br><br></div><div>A couple of points:<br><br></div><div>1. bitcoin=
ity already switched to mbtc aka millitbits ( <a href=3D"https://en.bitcoin=
.it/wiki/MilliBit">https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/MilliBit</a> ) and it was pos=
itively recieved, they got quite a few donations<br>
</div><div><br></div><div>2. If you watch Gavin's talk at the CFR he su=
ggests the community comes to a consensus through implementations rather th=
an top down decision making (If I understood correctly)<br><br></div><div>
I think it's up to wallet maintainers whether to switch the default.=A0=
<br></div><div><br></div><div>=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad=
ding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">
</div></div></div>
<br>-----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------<br>
Learn Graph Databases - Download FREE O'Reilly Book<br>
"Graph Databases" is the definitive new guide to graph databases =
and their<br>
applications. Written by three acclaimed leaders in the field,<br>
this first edition is now available. Download your free book today!<br>
<a href=3D"http://p.sf.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech" target=3D"_blank">http://p.sf=
.net/sfu/13534_NeoTech</a><br>_____________________________________________=
__<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
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pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
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" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
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