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From: Yifu Guo <yifu@coinapex.com>
To: Chun Wang <1240902@gmail.com>
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Cc: bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] Fwd: Block Size Increase Requirements
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--001a11c21da6e7ad660517619aee
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I will abstain on this wrangle of "when",
Instead I'd like to address some of the network topology health issues
that's been brought up in this debate.
Due to how blocks are being broadcast by miners at the moment, it is not
difficult to find the origin node of these blocks. These more influential
origin nodes are a minority, about <100 out of ~6000, <2%. These data
points are important to certain attack vectors. It is highly recommended
that pools adopt broadcast logic that rotates broadcasting nodes and
increase their node count.. Eloipool has this implanted for those seeking
to adopt/see it in action in the wild.
China is a particular worse-case due to the sporadic nature of their
internet infrastructure, especially connecting from/to outside of gfw, on a
average node-walk I can get up to a 10% difference while I know for a fact
some of the nodes shown to be down are up.
In F2Pool's case, I see 6 replay nodes, I don't know if that's enough or
that's all the nodes F2Pool runs, but it may be beneficial to set up
multi-homing with shadowsocks over mptcp to increase the stability. also
see if you can get a CERNET connection to be part of your rotations since
their backbone is quite good.
comments, question and grievances welcome.
On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 9:31 PM, Chun Wang <1240902@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 9:57 PM, Gavin Andresen <gavinandresen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> Bad miners could attack us and the network with artificial
> >> big blocks.
> >
> >
> > How?
> >
> > I ran some simulations, and I could not find a network topology where a
> big
> > miner producing big blocks could cause a loss of profit to another miner
> > (big or small) producing smaller blocks:
> >
> > http://gavinandresen.ninja/are-bigger-blocks-better-for-bigger-miners
> >
> > (the 0.3% advantage I DID find was for the situation where EVERYBODY was
> > producing big blocks).
>
> If someone propagate a 20MB block, it will take at best 6 seconds for
> us to receive to verify it at current configuration, result of one
> percent orphan rate increase. Or, we can mine the next block only on
> the previous block's header, in this case, the network would see many
> more transaction-less blocks.
>
> Our orphan rate is about 0.5% over the past few months. If the network
> floods 20MB blocks, it can be well above 2%. Besides bandwidth, A 20MB
> block could contain an average of 50000 transactions, hundred of
> thousands of sigops, Do you have an estimate how long it takes on the
> submitblock rpccall?
>
> For references, our 30Mbps bandwidth in Beijing costs us 1350 dollars
> per month. We also use Aliyun and Linode cloud services for block
> propagation. As of May 2015, the price is 0.13 U.S. dollars per GB for
> 100Mbps connectivity at Aliyun. For a single cross-border TCP
> connection, it would be certainly far slower than 12.5 MB/s.
>
> I think we can accept 5MB block at most.
>
> (sorry forgot to cc to the mailing list)
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
--
*Yifu Guo*
*"Life is an everlasting self-improvement."*
--001a11c21da6e7ad660517619aee
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px">I will abstai=
n on this wrangle of "when",=C2=A0</span><div style=3D"font-size:=
12.8000001907349px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px">I=
nstead I'd like to address some of the network topology health issues t=
hat's been brought up in this debate.</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8=
000001907349px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px">Due t=
o how blocks are being broadcast by miners at the moment, it is not difficu=
lt to find the origin node of these blocks. These more influential origin n=
odes are a minority, about <100 out of ~6000, <2%. These data points =
are important to certain attack vectors. It is highly recommended that pool=
s adopt broadcast logic that rotates broadcasting nodes and increase their =
node count.. Eloipool has this implanted for those seeking to adopt/see it =
in action in the wild.</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br=
></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px">China is a particular wo=
rse-case due to the sporadic nature of their internet infrastructure, espec=
ially connecting from/to outside of gfw, on a average node-walk I can get u=
p to a 10% difference while I know for a fact some of the nodes shown to be=
down are up.<br><div><div><br></div><div>In F2Pool's case, I see 6 rep=
lay nodes, I don't know if that's enough or that's all the node=
s F2Pool runs, but it may be beneficial to set up multi-homing with shadows=
ocks over mptcp to increase the stability. also see if you can get a CERNET=
connection to be part of your rotations since their backbone is quite good=
.</div><div><br></div><div>comments, question and=C2=A0grievances welcome.<=
/div></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote">On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 9:31 PM, Chun Wang <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:1240902@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">1240902@gmail.com</a>>=
;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 9=
:57 PM, Gavin Andresen <<a href=3D"mailto:gavinandresen@gmail.com">gavin=
andresen@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Bad miners could attack us and the network with artificial<br>
>> big blocks.<br>
><br>
><br>
> How?<br>
><br>
> I ran some simulations, and I could not find a network topology where =
a big<br>
> miner producing big blocks could cause a loss of profit to another min=
er<br>
> (big or small) producing smaller blocks:<br>
><br>
> <a href=3D"http://gavinandresen.ninja/are-bigger-blocks-better-for-big=
ger-miners" target=3D"_blank">http://gavinandresen.ninja/are-bigger-blocks-=
better-for-bigger-miners</a><br>
><br>
> (the 0.3% advantage I DID find was for the situation where EVERYBODY w=
as<br>
> producing big blocks).<br>
<br>
If someone propagate a 20MB block, it will take at best 6 seconds for<br>
us to receive to verify it at current configuration, result of one<br>
percent orphan rate increase. Or, we can mine the next block only on<br>
the previous block's header, in this case, the network would see many<b=
r>
more transaction-less blocks.<br>
<br>
Our orphan rate is about 0.5% over the past few months. If the network<br>
floods 20MB blocks, it can be well above 2%. Besides bandwidth, A 20MB<br>
block could contain an average of 50000 transactions, hundred of<br>
thousands of sigops, Do you have an estimate how long it takes on the<br>
submitblock rpccall?<br>
<br>
For references, our 30Mbps bandwidth in Beijing costs us 1350 dollars<br>
per month. We also use Aliyun and Linode cloud services for block<br>
propagation. As of May 2015, the price is 0.13 U.S. dollars per GB for<br>
100Mbps connectivity at Aliyun. For a single cross-border TCP<br>
connection, it would be certainly far slower than 12.5 MB/s.<br>
<br>
I think we can accept 5MB block at most.<br>
<br>
(sorry forgot to cc to the mailing list)<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net">Bitcoin-develo=
pment@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>=
<div class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:sm=
all;color:rgb(136,136,136)"><font face=3D"garamond, serif" size=3D"4"><b>Yi=
fu Guo</b></font></span><div style=3D"font-size:small"><font face=3D"verdan=
a, sans-serif"><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><font size=3D"1" color=3D"#333=
333"><i>"Life is an everlasting self-improvement."</i></font></di=
v></font></div></div></div>
</div>
--001a11c21da6e7ad660517619aee--
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