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Cc: Bitcoin Dev <bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Bitcoin-development] smart contracts -- possible use case? yes
 or no?
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This kind of thing is better discussed in the dev forum of bitcointalk.org


On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Melvin Carvalho
<melvincarvalho@gmail.com>wrote:

>
>
>
> On 29 September 2013 04:28, Neil Fincham <neil@asdf.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> I subscribe to this list so I can keep up-to date with bitcoin
>> development, can we keep philosophy and tax evasion out of it?
>>
>
> Hi Neil, perhaps I didnt present the use case clearly.  It was not about
> evasion, it was about voluntary donations going to the correct place, being
> verified by an oracle.  I dont wish to stray off topic, so I'll leave it at
> that.
>
>
>>
>> Neil
>>
>>
>> On 29 September 2013 09:15, <rob.golding@astutium.com> wrote:
>>
>>> > But the regulatory environment in many geographical regions in
>>> > uncertain.   Do we need to pay capital gains?   Do we need to pay a
>>> > sales taxs etc. etc.
>>>
>>> In most regions it's not only 'simple' but trivial - BTC is just
>>> 'another currency' and accounted for exactly the same way - it doens't
>>> matter if you sell your hose for GBP, USD, EUR, BTC or sacks of Pig
>>> Dung, you still have a GBP tax issue ...
>>>
>>> > So my idea is to voluntarily pre empt legislation by giving donations
>>> > to govt (aka taxation) for bitcoin service providers.
>>>
>>> You want to volunteer to pay tax ? I'd suggest stronger medication ...
>>>
>>> > However, there is something of a problem with voluntary donations.
>>> > Most people are not satisfied with the way they are spent.
>>>
>>> 80% of 'donations' end up spent on 'adminsitration' and not what they
>>> were donated for, this is a 'greed' issue not a 'currency' issue.
>>>
>>> > In the UK
>>> > a recent survey said that only 18% of people thought that tax money
>>> > was wisely spent.
>>>
>>> Tax isn't voluntary or a donation. The 18% who think UK tax is well
>>> spent are the 18% of the population who get the tax money, not the 82%
>>> that pay it ;)
>>>
>>> > Can we fix it?
>>>
>>> First we kill all the politicians ...
>>>
>>> > So let's say I run a business and I make 1 million euros.  I wish to
>>> > donate 10% of my profits to society.  But let's say I dont want that
>>> > money to go to wars of aggression, but rather, to the fire
>>> > de[department.
>>>
>>> So give it to the FD - what you do with your post-tax profits are up to
>>> you ;)
>>>
>>> > At this point everyone wins.  The business person is happy to make a
>>> > contribution.  The govt. is happy that it gets more revenue.  The
>>> > fire dept. is happy that it has revenue to do its work.  And
>>> > everything has gone to the right place in a kind of democratic way.
>>>
>>> Where does gov't come into this ? I think you're confusing 'tax' which
>>> you have zero control over and 'donations' which you already have 100%
>>> control over.
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> October Webinars: Code for Performance
>>> Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
>>> Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most
>>> from
>>> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register
>>> >
>>>
>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60133471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> October Webinars: Code for Performance
>> Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
>> Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most
>> from
>> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register >
>>
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60133471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bitcoin-development mailing list
>> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> October Webinars: Code for Performance
> Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.
> Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most
> from
> the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register >
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=60133471&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> _______________________________________________
> Bitcoin-development mailing list
> Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">This kind of thing is better discussed in the dev forum of=
 <a href=3D"http://bitcointalk.org">bitcointalk.org</a></div><div class=3D"=
gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 11:=
46 AM, Melvin Carvalho <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:melvincarval=
ho@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">melvincarvalho@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wro=
te:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_ext=
ra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"im">On 29 September 20=
13 04:28, Neil Fincham <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:neil@asdf.co=
.nz" target=3D"_blank">neil@asdf.co.nz</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I subscribe to this list so=
 I can keep up-to date with bitcoin development, can we keep philosophy and=
 tax evasion out of it?</div>

</blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Hi Neil, perhaps I didnt present the=
 use case clearly.=C2=A0 It was not about evasion, it was about voluntary d=
onations going to the correct place, being verified by an oracle.=C2=A0 I d=
ont wish to stray off topic, so I&#39;ll leave it at that.<br>

</div><div><div class=3D"h5"><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span><font color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div><div>Neil</=
div></font></span></div>

<div><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">

On 29 September 2013 09:15,  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rob.go=
lding@astutium.com" target=3D"_blank">rob.golding@astutium.com</a>&gt;</spa=
n> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;b=
order-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div>&gt; But the regulatory environment in many geographical regions in<br=
>
&gt; uncertain. =C2=A0 Do we need to pay capital gains?=C2=A0=C2=A0 Do we n=
eed to pay a<br>
&gt; sales taxs etc. etc.<br>
<br>
</div>In most regions it&#39;s not only &#39;simple&#39; but trivial - BTC =
is just<br>
&#39;another currency&#39; and accounted for exactly the same way - it doen=
s&#39;t<br>
matter if you sell your hose for GBP, USD, EUR, BTC or sacks of Pig<br>
Dung, you still have a GBP tax issue ...<br>
<div><br>
&gt; So my idea is to voluntarily pre empt legislation by giving donations<=
br>
&gt; to govt (aka taxation) for bitcoin service providers.=C2=A0<br>
<br>
</div>You want to volunteer to pay tax ? I&#39;d suggest stronger medicatio=
n ...<br>
<div><br>
&gt; However, there is something of a problem with voluntary donations.=C2=
=A0<br>
&gt; Most people are not satisfied with the way they are spent.<br>
<br>
</div>80% of &#39;donations&#39; end up spent on &#39;adminsitration&#39; a=
nd not what they<br>
were donated for, this is a &#39;greed&#39; issue not a &#39;currency&#39; =
issue.<br>
<div><br>
&gt; In the UK<br>
&gt; a recent survey said that only 18% of people thought that tax money<br=
>
&gt; was wisely spent.<br>
<br>
</div>Tax isn&#39;t voluntary or a donation. The 18% who think UK tax is we=
ll<br>
spent are the 18% of the population who get the tax money, not the 82%<br>
that pay it ;)<br>
<br>
&gt; Can we fix it?<br>
<br>
First we kill all the politicians ...<br>
<div><br>
&gt; So let&#39;s say I run a business and I make 1 million euros.=C2=A0 I =
wish to<br>
&gt; donate 10% of my profits to society.=C2=A0 But let&#39;s say I dont wa=
nt that<br>
&gt; money to go to wars of aggression, but rather, to the fire<br>
&gt; de[department.=C2=A0<br>
<br>
</div>So give it to the FD - what you do with your post-tax profits are up =
to<br>
you ;)<br>
<div><br>
&gt; At this point everyone wins.=C2=A0 The business person is happy to mak=
e a<br>
&gt; contribution.=C2=A0 The govt. is happy that it gets more revenue.=C2=
=A0 The<br>
&gt; fire dept. is happy that it has revenue to do its work.=C2=A0 And<br>
&gt; everything has gone to the right place in a kind of democratic way.<br=
>
<br>
</div>Where does gov&#39;t come into this ? I think you&#39;re confusing &#=
39;tax&#39; which<br>
you have zero control over and &#39;donations&#39; which you already have 1=
00%<br>
control over.<br>
<br>
Rob<br>
<br>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---<br>
October Webinars: Code for Performance<br>
Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.<br>
Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most fr=
om<br>
the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register &g=
t;<br>
<a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D60133471&amp;iu=
=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam=
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_______________________________________________<br>
Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-development=
" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div><br>-----------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------<br>
October Webinars: Code for Performance<br>
Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.<br>
Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most fr=
om<br>
the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register &g=
t;<br>
<a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D60133471&amp;iu=
=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam=
pad/clk?id=3D60133471&amp;iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br>___________________=
____________________________<br>


Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_bla=
nk">Bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net</a><br>
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" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bitcoin-de=
velopment</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div></div></div><br></div></div>
<br>-----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------<br>
October Webinars: Code for Performance<br>
Free Intel webinars can help you accelerate application performance.<br>
Explore tips for MPI, OpenMP, advanced profiling, and more. Get the most fr=
om<br>
the latest Intel processors and coprocessors. See abstracts and register &g=
t;<br>
<a href=3D"http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=3D60133471&amp;iu=
=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk" target=3D"_blank">http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gam=
pad/clk?id=3D60133471&amp;iu=3D/4140/ostg.clktrk</a><br>___________________=
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Bitcoin-development mailing list<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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