summaryrefslogtreecommitdiff
path: root/3e/c8e7fe376f49631a13e7f4690c7aa3267e5ebf
blob: 109a05316d1c46348c519275b01ae774e5adf5c2 (plain)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
Return-Path: <aj@erisian.com.au>
Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [140.211.166.133])
 by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F1B6C002D
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:29:58 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46176403B7
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:29:58 +0000 (UTC)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org 46176403B7
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 2.498
X-Spam-Level: **
X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5
 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001, MONEY_NOHTML=2.499,
 SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001]
 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1])
 by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
 with ESMTP id fxDOh-r1WccC
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:29:56 +0000 (UTC)
X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 smtp2.osuosl.org 2E94D4011D
Received: from azure.erisian.com.au (azure.erisian.com.au [172.104.61.193])
 by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E94D4011D
 for <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>;
 Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:29:56 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from aj@azure.erisian.com.au (helo=sapphire.erisian.com.au)
 by azure.erisian.com.au with esmtpsa (Exim 4.92 #3 (Debian))
 id 1oB2qe-0000Nk-2W; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:29:54 +1000
Received: by sapphire.erisian.com.au (sSMTP sendmail emulation);
 Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:29:47 +1000
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:29:47 +1000
From: Anthony Towns <aj@erisian.com.au>
To: Bram Cohen <bram@chia.net>,
 Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
Message-ID: <20220711232947.GC20899@erisian.com.au>
References: <CAHUJnBDYDbgr3C158o7c6_XXdG+kqJruFo=od_RmPFk_GS0udw@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CAHUJnBDYDbgr3C158o7c6_XXdG+kqJruFo=od_RmPFk_GS0udw@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13)
X-Spam-Score-int: -18
X-Spam-Bar: -
Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Security problems with relying on transaction
 fees for security
X-BeenThere: bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion <bitcoin-dev.lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/options/bitcoin-dev>, 
 <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/>
List-Post: <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev>, 
 <mailto:bitcoin-dev-request@lists.linuxfoundation.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:29:58 -0000

On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 11:12:52AM -0700, Bram Cohen via bitcoin-dev wrote:
> If transaction fees came in at an even rate over time all at the exact same
> level then they work fine for security, acting similarly to fixed block
> rewards. Unfortunately that isn't how it works in the real world.

That just becomes a market design question. There's been some trivial
effort put into that for bitcoin (ie, getting people to actually chooses
fees based on the weight of their transaction, and having weight be the
sole limiting factor for miners), but not a lot, and there's evidence
both from previous times in Bitcoin's history and from altcoin's that
the market can support higher fees.

Should we work on that today, though? It doesn't seem smart to me:
the subsidy is already quite substantial ($6.5 billion USD per year at
current prices) so raising fees to 10% of block reward would transfer
another $650M USD from bitcoin users to miners (or ASIC manfucturers
and electricity producers) each year, achieving what? Refuting some FUD?

Cheers,
aj