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From: Aymeric Vitte <vitteaymeric@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Small Nodes: A Better Alternative to Pruned Nodes
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Le 03/05/2017 à 21:10, Natanael via bitcoin-dev a écrit :
>
> Den 3 maj 2017 16:05 skrev "Erik Aronesty via bitcoin-dev"
> <bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> <mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org>>:
>
> > But as you've observed, the failure probabilities are rather high,
> > especially if an active attacker targets nodes carrying less
> commonly
> > available blocks.
>
> Wouldn't the solution be for nodes to use whatever mechanism an
> attacker uses to determine less commonly available blocks and
> choose to store a random percentage of them as well as their
> deterministic random set?
>
> IE X blocks end of chain (spv bootstrap), Y% deterministic random
> set, Z% patch/fill set to deter attacks
>
>
> Then he uses Sybil attacks to obscure what's actually rare and not.
> Even proof of storage isn't enough,you need proof of INDEPENDENT storage
Yes
> , which is essentially impossible
No, the bittorrent network is a good example
> , as well as a way of determining which nodes are run by the same
> people (all the AWS nodes should essentially count as one).
No, this one is impossible and you don't care in fact, as long as the
system forbids the nodes to position themselves where they like and can
check that the nodes are behaving correctly, same people's nodes/IPs
would then just do the job
And if you add to this a rewarding system that is not necessarily
profitable then you eliminate the incentive for sybil attacking the
network (like the "tip" proposal today) while motivating those that have
the resources to run full nodes, then increasing independence
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> bitcoin-dev mailing list
> bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev
--
Zcash wallets made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallets
Bitcoin wallets made simple: https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-wallets
Get the torrent dynamic blocklist: http://peersm.com/getblocklist
Check the 10 M passwords list: http://peersm.com/findmyass
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: http://torrent-live.org
Peersm : http://www.peersm.com
torrent-live: https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live
node-Tor : https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor
GitHub : https://www.github.com/Ayms
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<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 03/05/2017 à 21:10, Natanael via
bitcoin-dev a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAt2M1_TH=1Xw=65QxxCHMZzE-fzC3UhRaEk+KkKY2SHkN6CbQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">Den 3 maj 2017 16:05 skrev "Erik
Aronesty via bitcoin-dev" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>>:<br
type="attribution">
<blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div class="quoted-text">
<div>> But as you've observed, the failure
probabilities are rather high,<br>
> especially if an active attacker targets
nodes carrying less commonly<br>
> available blocks. <br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
Wouldn't the solution be for nodes to use whatever
mechanism an attacker uses to determine less commonly
available blocks and choose to store a random
percentage of them as well as their deterministic
random set? <br>
<br>
IE X blocks end of chain (spv bootstrap), Y%
deterministic random set, Z% patch/fill set to deter
attacks<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Then he uses Sybil attacks to obscure what's
actually rare and not. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAt2M1_TH=1Xw=65QxxCHMZzE-fzC3UhRaEk+KkKY2SHkN6CbQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">Even proof of storage isn't enough,you need
proof of INDEPENDENT storage</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Yes<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAt2M1_TH=1Xw=65QxxCHMZzE-fzC3UhRaEk+KkKY2SHkN6CbQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">, which is essentially impossible</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
No, the bittorrent network is a good example<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAt2M1_TH=1Xw=65QxxCHMZzE-fzC3UhRaEk+KkKY2SHkN6CbQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">, as well as a way of determining which nodes
are run by the same people (all the AWS nodes should
essentially count as one). <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
No, this one is impossible and you don't care in fact, as long as
the system forbids the nodes to position themselves where they like
and can check that the nodes are behaving correctly, same people's
nodes/IPs would then just do the job<br>
<br>
And if you add to this a rewarding system that is not necessarily
profitable then you eliminate the incentive for sybil attacking the
network (like the "tip" proposal today) while motivating those that
have the resources to run full nodes, then increasing independence<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAt2M1_TH=1Xw=65QxxCHMZzE-fzC3UhRaEk+KkKY2SHkN6CbQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
bitcoin-dev mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org">bitcoin-dev@lists.linuxfoundation.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev">https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/bitcoin-dev</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Zcash wallets made simple: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallets">https://github.com/Ayms/zcash-wallets</a>
Bitcoin wallets made simple: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-wallets">https://github.com/Ayms/bitcoin-wallets</a>
Get the torrent dynamic blocklist: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://peersm.com/getblocklist">http://peersm.com/getblocklist</a>
Check the 10 M passwords list: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://peersm.com/findmyass">http://peersm.com/findmyass</a>
Anti-spies and private torrents, dynamic blocklist: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://torrent-live.org">http://torrent-live.org</a>
Peersm : <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.peersm.com">http://www.peersm.com</a>
torrent-live: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live">https://github.com/Ayms/torrent-live</a>
node-Tor : <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor">https://www.github.com/Ayms/node-Tor</a>
GitHub : <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.github.com/Ayms">https://www.github.com/Ayms</a></pre>
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